[Dovecot] Idea: POP3 deletion as a flag

[Professa Dementia]

On 5/3/2013 11:36 AM, Timo Sirainen wrote:
> On 3.5.2013, at 19.55, Robert Schetterer <rs at sys4.de> wrote:
>
>> Am 03.05.2013 18:14, schrieb Timo Sirainen:
>>> GMail doesn't delete mails when POP3 client issues a DELE command for it. Instead they just become invisible for future POP3 sessions, but they still exist for IMAP/webmail. The same could be implemented pretty easily for Dovecot:
>>>
>>> - Add a new setting to enable this: pop3_deleted_flag = $POP3Deleted
>>> - When DELEting a message, add this flag to the message.
>>> - When listing messages, skip all messages that have this flag.
>>
>> My vote, do it , if it doesnt break anything else, but a wiki help
>> should be offered too.
>>
>>> - Also hide this flag from IMAP clients(?)
>>
>> wouldnt do this, that may end in user confusion
>
> Just about zero IMAP clients make IMAP keywords visible to users, so I'm not really sure which way to go here. I'm more thinking of it as an internal POP3 state which doesn't really need to be visible to IMAP clients, but then again I guess it wouldn't really hurt either.
>


Be careful about adding features just for the sake of adding features. 
Dovecot is already a powerful, but quite complex.  This would make it 
even more complex and non-standard.  POP and IMAP clients do not expect 
this behavior from the server.  Also, I have never heard anyone request 
this feature.

Google has already admitted that they do not delete email, even when 
those emails are deleted from the Trash.  Google states that emails may 
be archived for a minimum of 2 months past when they are deleted - 
emails, may, however, be saved forever.  You do not know.  Google has 
lots of storage and their business is marketing, which means selling 
people's personal information.  Google is large enough that they are 
under scrutiny and have to obey EU privacy laws.  However, adding this 
feature to Dovecot could put smaller email operators in violation of 
those laws.  Not deleting emails when the client says to, is effectively 
archiving, and data that is archived is regulated by EU privacy laws. 
Lots of legal problems have arisen as a result of this.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/12/patriot-act-and-privacy-laws-take-a-bite-out-of-us-cloud-business/

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/eu-judges-hear-arguments-google-test-privacy-case-102608029--finance.html

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2012/03/02/google_in_breach_of_eu_privacy_laws_commissioner_says



The problem is already solved by the POP client.  Most have a setting 
that allow emails to remain on the server for a period of time.  The 
default is generally 5 days, but can be set to any value desired.  Apple 
Mail, Thunderbird and outlook all have this feature.  Most smartphones 
also have this feature, including the iPhone, Blackberry and Android 
devices, and even though the settings are generally not easily 
accessible, it defaults to being turned on.

So in conclusion, in my experience, this feature is not one that has 
been requested, it makes Dovecot more complex and behave in ways not 
expected by the client, and it may have privacy and legal problems.  I 
would recommend not doing it.

I think it would be better to concentrate on features that people ask 
for.  As awful as exchange is, the reason people give me why they use it 
over a normal email solution is for the groupware features, which 
standard POP and IMAP email is still lacking.

Dem