user attempts to create folders with / dovecot naturally cannot create it so it returns error but outlook of course "create" it and keep data in local store only. data is lost when you remove local store .pst file.
The question is - can dovecot be configured so it will automatically replace slash in name with something else?
+1
A similar problem occurs with "."
Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 15:44, Wojciech Puchar wojtek@puchar.net wrote:
user attempts to create folders with / dovecot naturally cannot create it so it returns error but outlook of course "create" it and keep data in local store only. data is lost when you remove local store .pst file.
The question is - can dovecot be configured so it will automatically replace slash in name with something else?
On 29 September 2018 at 10:05 Rupert Gallagher ruga@protonmail.com wrote:
+1
A similar problem occurs with "."
Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 15:44, Wojciech Puchar wojtek@puchar.net wrote:
user attempts to create folders with / dovecot naturally cannot create it so it returns error but outlook of course "create" it and keep data in local store only. data is lost when you remove local store .pst file.
The question is - can dovecot be configured so it will automatically replace slash in name with something else?
And how would this help? Outlook would still go ahead and create the folder with / in it, and dovecot would create a folder with, say - in it and now you'd have two folders.
Aki
Sorry Aki, you are right.
On Sat, Sep 29, 2018 at 09:59, Aki Tuomi aki.tuomi@open-xchange.com wrote:
On 29 September 2018 at 10:05 Rupert Gallagher ruga@protonmail.com wrote:
+1
A similar problem occurs with "."
Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 15:44, Wojciech Puchar wojtek@puchar.net wrote:
user attempts to create folders with / dovecot naturally cannot create it so it returns error but outlook of course "create" it and keep data in local store only. data is lost when you remove local store .pst file.
The question is - can dovecot be configured so it will automatically replace slash in name with something else?
And how would this help? Outlook would still go ahead and create the folder with / in it, and dovecot would create a folder with, say - in it and now you'd have two folders.
Aki
The question is - can dovecot be configured so it will automatically replace slash in name with something else?
And how would this help? Outlook would still go ahead and create the folder with / in it, and dovecot would create a folder with, say - in it and now you'd have two folders.
Aki
right
On 28 Sep 2018, at 16.44, Wojciech Puchar wojtek@puchar.net wrote:
user attempts to create folders with / dovecot naturally cannot create it so it returns error but outlook of course "create" it and keep data in local store only. data is lost when you remove local store .pst file.
The question is - can dovecot be configured so it will automatically replace slash in name with something else?
https://wiki2.dovecot.org/Plugins/Listescape https://wiki2.dovecot.org/Plugins/Listescape maybe?
I tell users to limit the folder characters to /0-9a-zA-Z_/, because anything else may upset a mail client or server.
As I have no control over their minds, hands, and client software, I wish I could enforce the policy from the server, returning an error message to the client.
On its turn, this requires the client to listen to such server messages, operated by a smarter user.
At the end of the day, it feels like we are re-discovering the wheel, as such problems should have been addressed and solved long ago by an RFC.
Listescape is a welcome patch. Let see if it works. I just have to select a character that no user could type and still practical for the filesystem to use...
On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 10:07, Timo Sirainen tss@iki.fi wrote:
On 28 Sep 2018, at 16.44, Wojciech Puchar wojtek@puchar.net wrote:
user attempts to create folders with / dovecot naturally cannot create it so it returns error but outlook of course "create" it and keep data in local store only. data is lost when you remove local store .pst file.
The question is - can dovecot be configured so it will automatically replace slash in name with something else?
As I have no control over their minds, hands, and client software, I wish I could enforce the policy from the server, returning an error message to the client.
On its turn, this requires the client to listen to such server messages, operated by a smarter user.
the problem with pseudomail pseudoprogram outlook is that it simply ignores error and shows folder created, then even allow to store messages in it (store it locally in temporary file).
When file is deleted messages are lost.
At the end of the day, it feels like we are re-discovering the wheel, as such problems should have been addressed and solved long ago by an RFC.
Listescape is a welcome patch. Let see if it works. I just have to select a character that no user could type and still practical for the filesystem to use...
On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 10:07, Timo Sirainen tss@iki.fi wrote: On 28 Sep 2018, at 16.44, Wojciech Puchar wojtek@puchar.net wrote:
user attempts to create folders with / dovecot naturally cannot create it so it returns error but outlook of course "create" it and keep data in local store only. data is lost when you remove local store .pst file. The question is - can dovecot be configured so it will automatically replace slash in name with something else?
I think we need a public compliance test, similar to html and ssl, then people would start questioning the quality of their own client, and migrate to better ones. When Micro$oft will eventually feel the pinch, then they will start fixing their $hit. People have the power! (I like that song.)
On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 09:59, Wojciech Puchar wojtek@puchar.net wrote:
As I have no control over their minds, hands, and client software, I wish I could enforce the policy from the server, returning an error message to the client.
On its turn, this requires the client to listen to such server messages, operated by a smarter user.
the problem with pseudomail pseudoprogram outlook is that it simply ignores error and shows folder created, then even allow to store messages in it (store it locally in temporary file).
When file is deleted messages are lost.
At the end of the day, it feels like we are re-discovering the wheel, as such problems should have been addressed and solved long ago by an RFC.
Listescape is a welcome patch. Let see if it works. I just have to select a character that no user could type and still practical for the filesystem to use...
On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 10:07, Timo Sirainen tss@iki.fi wrote: On 28 Sep 2018, at 16.44, Wojciech Puchar wojtek@puchar.net wrote:
user attempts to create folders with / dovecot naturally cannot create it so it returns error but outlook of course "create" it and keep data in local store only. data is lost when you remove local store .pst file.
The question is - can dovecot be configured so it will automatically replace slash in name with something else?
On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 09:59, Wojciech Puchar wojtek@puchar.net wrote:
As I have no control over their minds, hands, and client software, I wish I could enforce the policy from the server, returning an error message to the client.
On its turn, this requires the client to listen to such server messages, operated by a smarter user.
At the end of the day, it feels like we are re-discovering the wheel, as such problems should have been addressed and solved long ago by an RFC.
Listescape is a welcome patch. Let see if it works. I just have to select a character that no user could type and still practical for the filesystem to use...
On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 10:07, Timo Sirainen tss@iki.fi wrote: On 28 Sep 2018, at 16.44, Wojciech Puchar wojtek@puchar.net wrote:
user attempts to create folders with / dovecot naturally cannot create it so it returns error but outlook of course "create" it and keep data in local store only. data is lost when you remove local store .pst file.
The question is - can dovecot be configured so it will automatically replace slash in name with something else?
the problem with pseudomail pseudoprogram outlook is that it simply ignores error and shows folder created, then even allow to store messages in it (store it locally in temporary file).
When file is deleted messages are lost.
On Tue, 02 Oct 2018 11:29:40 +0000, Rupert Gallagher stated:
I think we need a public compliance test, similar to html and ssl, then people would start questioning the quality of their own client, and migrate to better ones. When Micro$oft will eventually feel the pinch, then they will start fixing their $hit. People have the power! (I like that song.)
Nobody is going to stop using Outlook because some *.nix user has gotten his shorts up in a knot. Now, I did ask this question on a MS Outlook Tech Forum. One of the first responses I got was to ask exactly what Dovecot's response was to the attempt to create this folder; i.e., what error message or code was returned by Dovecot. I don't have the answer to that. If someone can supply me with the complete and accurate return code I will post that and see what transpires.
By the way, could we please do away with the "TOP POSTING" on this thread. It seems rather counter productive to be bitching about the behavior of MS Outlook while a poster posts in an unsatisfactory manner.
-- Jerry
On 2 Oct 2018, at 15.28, Jerry jerry@seibercom.net wrote:
Nobody is going to stop using Outlook because some *.nix user has gotten his shorts up in a knot. Now, I did ask this question on a MS Outlook Tech Forum. One of the first responses I got was to ask exactly what Dovecot's response was to the attempt to create this folder; i.e., what error message or code was returned by Dovecot. I don't have the answer to that. If someone can supply me with the complete and accurate return code I will post that and see what transpires.
A NO [CANNOT] Character not allowed in mailbox name: '/' (0.001 + 0.000 secs).
Sami
this seems to form properly.
thank you very much
On Mon, 1 Oct 2018, Timo Sirainen wrote:
On 28 Sep 2018, at 16.44, Wojciech Puchar wojtek@puchar.net wrote:
user attempts to create folders with / dovecot naturally cannot create it so it returns error but outlook of course "create" it and keep data in local store only. data is lost when you remove local store .pst file. The question is - can dovecot be configured so it will automatically replace slash in name with something else?
On 2018-10-01 04:07, Timo Sirainen wrote:
It should be mentioned somehow that one can't just change the hierarchy separator on the fly (without manual changes to the fs).
If you used . as the separator, it would look this in the filesystem: .testfolder.sub1 Now you change the separator to $. Your mail client will see the existing folders as .testfolder.sub1 instead of:
testfolder sub1
Cheers, K. C.
-- regards Helmut K. C. Tessarek KeyID 0x172380A011EF4944 Key fingerprint = 8A55 70C1 BD85 D34E ADBC 386C 1723 80A0 11EF 4944
/* Thou shalt not follow the NULL pointer for chaos and madness await thee at its end. */
On 2 Oct 2018, at 22.52, Helmut K. C. Tessarek tessarek@evermeet.cx wrote:
On 2018-10-01 04:07, Timo Sirainen wrote:
It should be mentioned somehow that one can't just change the hierarchy separator on the fly (without manual changes to the fs).
If you used . as the separator, it would look this in the filesystem: .testfolder.sub1 Now you change the separator to $. Your mail client will see the existing folders as .testfolder.sub1 instead of:
testfolder sub1
No, that's not how the listescape plugin works. You can't change the filesystem separator with or without listescape plugin. It's always "." with Maildir++. You can change the namespace's visible separator to e.g. "$" which allows you to start using "." in the folder names with listescape. But using "." will be encoded as \2e (or something) in the filesystem.
Changing the namespace separator can have other problems though. Clients generally don't like it much, and may redownload all mails in subfolders if it's changed. Some clients may become even more confused.
On 2018-10-02 16:02, Timo Sirainen wrote:
No, that's not how the listescape plugin works. You can't change the filesystem separator with or without listescape plugin. It's always "." with Maildir++.
This exactly my point. This fact is nowhere stated in the documentation.
I'm actually not talking about the plugin at all. (I'm very sorry that I've replied to your listescape reply, my bad.)
The documentation only mentions that the separator can be changed by
setting the separator option. But it doesn't explain what it actually
does and why one wanted to do so in the first place.
e.g. Someone uses the default. Then changes it to something else. What happens then? (you answered it already partly - clients might be confused).
But if the filesystem always used the . for Maildir, why would somebody want to change the separator (without the plugin)?
Cheers, K. C.
-- regards Helmut K. C. Tessarek KeyID 0x172380A011EF4944 Key fingerprint = 8A55 70C1 BD85 D34E ADBC 386C 1723 80A0 11EF 4944
/* Thou shalt not follow the NULL pointer for chaos and madness await thee at its end. */
I have an odd issue. One user has an email in her Maildir/cur folder named: 1545229920.27374_0.mail:2,. She cannot see this message in her mail client (Thunderbird). All other emails have 'S' and 'W' components to the name, e.g. 1488471573.M167365P19808.mail,S=41356,W=42118:2,RS, but this one does not. Would that somehow make a difference in it being visible to the mail client?
Why would this message have been saved without the 'S' and 'W' bits?
In fact, there are two such message with this abbreviated file name, both from the same sender. Is there possibly something about the message that affects naming?
Dovecot version 2.2.33.2
THX --Mark
participants (8)
-
Aki Tuomi
-
Helmut K. C. Tessarek
-
Jerry
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Mark Foley
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Rupert Gallagher
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Sami Ketola
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Timo Sirainen
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Wojciech Puchar