Re: [Dovecot] IMAP SPECIAL-USE extension
On 2011-12-02 22:22, dovecot-request@dovecot.org wrote:
It's implemented now in dovecot-2.1 hg. It also deprecates autocreate plugin (but it still works the old way). The idea is that you can now do e.g.:
mailbox Trash { auto = no special_use = \Trash } ...
This is great Timo. But for solving the localization problem for special-use folders, it's only half the way.
Are there any plans to support RFC5464 SETMETADATA, so individual users can name their "\Trash" folder "Skraldspand" in danish or what ever they prefer?
/Peter
Am 06.12.2011 10:39, schrieb Peter Mogensen:
On 2011-12-02 22:22, dovecot-request@dovecot.org wrote:
It's implemented now in dovecot-2.1 hg. It also deprecates autocreate plugin (but it still works the old way). The idea is that you can now do e.g.:
mailbox Trash { auto = no special_use = \Trash } ...
This is great Timo. But for solving the localization problem for special-use folders, it's only half the way.
Are there any plans to support RFC5464 SETMETADATA, so individual users can name their "\Trash" folder "Skraldspand" in danish or what ever they prefer?
I believe setting the name should be a mapping that takes place in the MUA.
p@
/Peter
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On 06.12.2011 11:29, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
Are there any plans to support RFC5464 SETMETADATA, so individual users can name their "\Trash" folder "Skraldspand" in danish or what ever they prefer?
Now I see in the hg that Timo doesn't implemented this nor CREATE-SPECIAL-USE. So, it's not so nice as I thought ;) There is metadata plugin. Should it be extended to support this?
I believe setting the name should be a mapping that takes place in the MUA.
We have RFC6154 for this, don't try to be smarter. -- Aleksander 'A.L.E.C' Machniak LAN Management System Developer [http://lms.org.pl] Roundcube Webmail Developer [http://roundcube.net] --------------------------------------------------- PGP: 19359DC1 @@ GG: 2275252 @@ WWW: http://alec.pl
- A.L.E.C <alec@alec.pl>:
On 06.12.2011 11:29, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
Are there any plans to support RFC5464 SETMETADATA, so individual users can name their "\Trash" folder "Skraldspand" in danish or what ever they prefer?
Now I see in the hg that Timo doesn't implemented this nor CREATE-SPECIAL-USE. So, it's not so nice as I thought ;) There is metadata plugin. Should it be extended to support this?
I believe setting the name should be a mapping that takes place in the MUA.
We have RFC6154 for this, don't try to be smarter.
From my understanding RFC 6154 serves to flag some IMAP mailboxes in order to indicate they should be used for special use e.g. as trash folder etc.
I fail to see how RFC 6154 would help displaying localized mailbox names.
Please point out.
p@rick
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On 06.12.2011 13:43, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
From my understanding RFC 6154 serves to flag some IMAP mailboxes in order to indicate they should be used for special use e.g. as trash folder etc.
I fail to see how RFC 6154 would help displaying localized mailbox names.
Ok. It will not help for existing folders, but will allow creation of special-use folders with any name. -- Aleksander 'A.L.E.C' Machniak LAN Management System Developer [http://lms.org.pl] Roundcube Webmail Developer [http://roundcube.net] --------------------------------------------------- PGP: 19359DC1 @@ GG: 2275252 @@ WWW: http://alec.pl
- A.L.E.C <alec@alec.pl>:
On 06.12.2011 13:43, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
From my understanding RFC 6154 serves to flag some IMAP mailboxes in order to indicate they should be used for special use e.g. as trash folder etc.
I fail to see how RFC 6154 would help displaying localized mailbox names.
Ok. It will not help for existing folders, but will allow creation of special-use folders with any name.
Yes. And on top of that a MUA should detect these SPECIAL-USE folders and automagically map its special folders (trash, archive, sent, drafts, etc.) to the servers SPECIAL-USE mailboxes.
This should take place transparently and the special folders should carry localized mailbox names e.g. "Sent" or "Gesendet" or "..."
At least that was my motivation to initiate that RFC about two years ago and getting closer to that goal was the reason to sponsor this feature in Dovecot 2.1.
p@rick
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Guess the next nice step would be to get sieve scripts to be able to
use the aliased special use folders. So you can just say, fileinto
\Spam;
Quoting Patrick Ben Koetter <p@state-of-mind.de>:
- A.L.E.C <alec@alec.pl>:
On 06.12.2011 13:43, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
From my understanding RFC 6154 serves to flag some IMAP mailboxes
in order to indicate they should be used for special use e.g. as trash folder etc.I fail to see how RFC 6154 would help displaying localized mailbox names.
Ok. It will not help for existing folders, but will allow creation of special-use folders with any name.
Yes. And on top of that a MUA should detect these SPECIAL-USE folders and automagically map its special folders (trash, archive, sent, drafts, etc.) to the servers SPECIAL-USE mailboxes.
This should take place transparently and the special folders should carry localized mailbox names e.g. "Sent" or "Gesendet" or "..."
At least that was my motivation to initiate that RFC about two years ago and getting closer to that goal was the reason to sponsor this feature in Dovecot 2.1.
p@rick
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Op 6-12-2011 16:00, Patrick Domack schreef:
Guess the next nice step would be to get sieve scripts to be able to use the aliased special use folders. So you can just say, fileinto \Spam;
Hmm, yeah. This will require some standardization efforts though.
Your example is a bit problematic:
- First, syntax-wise, the argument should be enclosed in double quotes; the grammar of the Sieve language is a bit sacred. :)
- From what I've read, those SPECIAL-USE flags are not guaranteed to be unique, so the delivery may become ambiguous. So, it is not really an alias.
- Making the bare fileinto command accept a SPECIAL-USE flag as an alternative to a regular folder name may be unwise (potentially causing naming conflicts, albeit unlikely). Some sort of :special_use tag would be in order.
The ability to query which folder(s) are used for special purposes could be an alternative, although that is not ideal either. I am not sure how to approach this right now.
Regards,
Stephan.
Yep, I only meant it in the crudest of forms. I'm sure defining the
correct syntax will be the hard part.
Quoting Stephan Bosch <stephan@rename-it.nl>:
Op 6-12-2011 16:00, Patrick Domack schreef:
Guess the next nice step would be to get sieve scripts to be able
to use the aliased special use folders. So you can just say,
fileinto \Spam;Hmm, yeah. This will require some standardization efforts though.
Your example is a bit problematic:
- First, syntax-wise, the argument should be enclosed in double
quotes; the grammar of the Sieve language is a bit sacred. :)- From what I've read, those SPECIAL-USE flags are not guaranteed
to be unique, so the delivery may become ambiguous. So, it is not
really an alias.- Making the bare fileinto command accept a SPECIAL-USE flag as an
alternative to a regular folder name may be unwise (potentially
causing naming conflicts, albeit unlikely). Some sort of
:special_use tag would be in order.The ability to query which folder(s) are used for special purposes
could be an alternative, although that is not ideal either. I am not
sure how to approach this right now.Regards,
Stephan.
Quoting Patrick Ben Koetter <p@state-of-mind.de>:
- A.L.E.C <alec@alec.pl>:
On 06.12.2011 13:43, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
From my understanding RFC 6154 serves to flag some IMAP mailboxes
in order to indicate they should be used for special use e.g. as trash folder etc.I fail to see how RFC 6154 would help displaying localized mailbox names.
Ok. It will not help for existing folders, but will allow creation of special-use folders with any name.
Yes. And on top of that a MUA should detect these SPECIAL-USE folders and automagically map its special folders (trash, archive, sent, drafts, etc.) to the servers SPECIAL-USE mailboxes.
This should take place transparently and the special folders should carry localized mailbox names e.g. "Sent" or "Gesendet" or "..."
Except the localization conversions should be done on the MUA level,
not the mailstore level (see, e.g., INBOX).
As Timo noted in another message in this thread, for the most part
there has been a informal standardization of special mailbox names to
their English equivalents. There is really no reason to move away
from this standardization, especially for MUAs that do not yet support
RFC 6154 but may support a form auto-detection of common special
mailbox names.
michael
- Michael M Slusarz <slusarz@curecanti.org>:
Quoting Patrick Ben Koetter <p@state-of-mind.de>:
- A.L.E.C <alec@alec.pl>:
On 06.12.2011 13:43, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
From my understanding RFC 6154 serves to flag some IMAP mailboxes in order to indicate they should be used for special use e.g. as trash folder etc.
I fail to see how RFC 6154 would help displaying localized mailbox names.
Ok. It will not help for existing folders, but will allow creation of special-use folders with any name.
Yes. And on top of that a MUA should detect these SPECIAL-USE folders and automagically map its special folders (trash, archive, sent, drafts, etc.) to the servers SPECIAL-USE mailboxes.
This should take place transparently and the special folders should carry localized mailbox names e.g. "Sent" or "Gesendet" or "..."
Except the localization conversions should be done on the MUA level, not the mailstore level (see, e.g., INBOX).
I believe that is exactly what I said in my lines above.
As Timo noted in another message in this thread, for the most part there has been a informal standardization of special mailbox names to their English equivalents. There is really no reason to move away from this standardization, especially for MUAs that do not yet
Where in my posting did I say I want to move away from that standard?
support RFC 6154 but may support a form auto-detection of common special mailbox names.
p@rick
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Quoting Patrick Ben Koetter <p@state-of-mind.de>:
- Michael M Slusarz <slusarz@curecanti.org>:
Quoting Patrick Ben Koetter <p@state-of-mind.de>:
- A.L.E.C <alec@alec.pl>:
On 06.12.2011 13:43, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
From my understanding RFC 6154 serves to flag some IMAP mailboxes in order to indicate they should be used for special use e.g. as trash folder etc.
I fail to see how RFC 6154 would help displaying localized
mailbox names.Ok. It will not help for existing folders, but will allow creation of special-use folders with any name.
Yes. And on top of that a MUA should detect these SPECIAL-USE folders and automagically map its special folders (trash, archive, sent,
drafts, etc.) to the servers SPECIAL-USE mailboxes.This should take place transparently and the special folders should carry localized mailbox names e.g. "Sent" or "Gesendet" or "..."
Except the localization conversions should be done on the MUA level, not the mailstore level (see, e.g., INBOX).
I believe that is exactly what I said in my lines above.
As Timo noted in another message in this thread, for the most part there has been a informal standardization of special mailbox names to their English equivalents. There is really no reason to move away from this standardization, especially for MUAs that do not yet
Where in my posting did I say I want to move away from that standard?
The combination of the original author's comment, and your response
which did not seem to disagree with him at all, made it ambiguous at
best whether you were referring to localized mailbox names being
stored on the server or being translated on the client. Looking
through the entire thread, and seeing your previous message, I see
that this was an incorrect assumption. I apologize for any
misunderstanding.
michael
- Michael M Slusarz <slusarz@curecanti.org>:
The combination of the original author's comment, and your response which did not seem to disagree with him at all, made it ambiguous at best whether you were referring to localized mailbox names being stored on the server or being translated on the client. Looking through the entire thread, and seeing your previous message, I see that this was an incorrect assumption. I apologize for any misunderstanding.
Thank you.
p@rick
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participants (6)
-
A.L.E.C
-
Michael M Slusarz
-
Patrick Ben Koetter
-
Patrick Domack
-
Peter Mogensen
-
Stephan Bosch