Migrating GMail to Dovecot using imapc
Dear Dovecot community,
I try to migrate a GMail mailbox to Dovecot using doveadm backup -R imapc:. Since it seems that GMail disabled the login without XOAUTH2, I
cannot figure out how to authenticate dovecot to GMail. Could you point
me in the right direction? Thank you in advance!
Best regards, Jan
Here the commands and config I am using:
# dovecot --version 2.3.19.1 (9b53102964)
# doveadm -D -c gmail.conf backup -R -u user-gmail imapc:
# cat gmail.conf !include /etc/dovecot/dovecot.conf
imapc_host=imap.gmail.com imapc_port=993 imapc_ssl=imaps imapc_features=rfc822.size fetch-headers gmail-migration mail_prefetch_count=20
imapc_sasl_mechanisms=XOAUTH2 OAUTHBEARER PLAIN
rawlog_dir = /tmp/rawlog imapc_rawlog_dir = /tmp/rawlog
imapc_user=user@googlemail.com imapc_password=pw
# cat /tmp/rawlog/20241118-114553.246444.1.in 1731926753.488821 * OK Gimap ready for requests from <ip> <base64> 1731926753.503819 * CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UNSELECT IDLE NAMESPACE QUOTA ID XLIST CHILDREN X-GM-EXT-1 XYZZY SASL-IR AUTH=XOAUTH2 AUTH=PLAIN AUTH=PLAIN-CLIENTTOKEN AUTH=OAUTHBEARER 1731926753.503819 1 OK Thats all she wrote! <base64> 1731926753.806967 + <base64>
# cat /tmp/rawlog/20241118-114553.246444.1.out 1731926753.488935 1 CAPABILITY 1731926753.504048 2 AUTHENTICATE XOAUTH2 <base64>
For single account migration you can use google playground to get a token,
https://developers.google.com/oauthplayground/
just make sure it has the right scope(s) to work. You need the "bearer token".
Then you can do
doveadm -o imapc_password=<token here> -o imapc_sasl_mechanism=xoauth2 ... sync
Aki
On 18/11/2024 13:01 EET Jan Naumann via dovecot <dovecot@dovecot.org> wrote:
Dear Dovecot community,
I try to migrate a GMail mailbox to Dovecot using
doveadm backup -R imapc:. Since it seems that GMail disabled the login without XOAUTH2, I cannot figure out how to authenticate dovecot to GMail. Could you point me in the right direction? Thank you in advance!Best regards, Jan
Here the commands and config I am using:
# dovecot --version 2.3.19.1 (9b53102964)
# doveadm -D -c gmail.conf backup -R -u user-gmail imapc:
# cat gmail.conf !include /etc/dovecot/dovecot.conf
imapc_host=imap.gmail.com imapc_port=993 imapc_ssl=imaps imapc_features=rfc822.size fetch-headers gmail-migration mail_prefetch_count=20
imapc_sasl_mechanisms=XOAUTH2 OAUTHBEARER PLAIN
rawlog_dir = /tmp/rawlog imapc_rawlog_dir = /tmp/rawlog
imapc_user=user@googlemail.com imapc_password=pw
# cat /tmp/rawlog/20241118-114553.246444.1.in 1731926753.488821 * OK Gimap ready for requests from <ip> <base64> 1731926753.503819 * CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UNSELECT IDLE NAMESPACE QUOTA ID XLIST CHILDREN X-GM-EXT-1 XYZZY SASL-IR AUTH=XOAUTH2 AUTH=PLAIN AUTH=PLAIN-CLIENTTOKEN AUTH=OAUTHBEARER 1731926753.503819 1 OK Thats all she wrote! <base64> 1731926753.806967 + <base64>
# cat /tmp/rawlog/20241118-114553.246444.1.out 1731926753.488935 1 CAPABILITY 1731926753.504048 2 AUTHENTICATE XOAUTH2 <base64>
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Thank you very much! Did not know that there is this nice playground.
Do you think it would be fine that I will prepare a pull request for the
documentation later to add this information for future reference?
For me it was not clear that imapc_password would be the right place
to provide the access/bearer token.
Best, Jan
On 18.11.24 12:12, Aki Tuomi wrote:
For single account migration you can use google playground to get a token,
https://developers.google.com/oauthplayground/
just make sure it has the right scope(s) to work. You need the "bearer token".
Then you can do
doveadm -o imapc_password=<token here> -o imapc_sasl_mechanism=xoauth2 ... sync
Aki
On 18/11/2024 13:01 EET Jan Naumann via dovecot <dovecot@dovecot.org> wrote:
Dear Dovecot community,
I try to migrate a GMail mailbox to Dovecot using
doveadm backup -R imapc:. Since it seems that GMail disabled the login without XOAUTH2, I cannot figure out how to authenticate dovecot to GMail. Could you point me in the right direction? Thank you in advance!Best regards, Jan
Here the commands and config I am using:
# dovecot --version 2.3.19.1 (9b53102964)
# doveadm -D -c gmail.conf backup -R -u user-gmail imapc:
# cat gmail.conf !include /etc/dovecot/dovecot.conf
imapc_host=imap.gmail.com imapc_port=993 imapc_ssl=imaps imapc_features=rfc822.size fetch-headers gmail-migration mail_prefetch_count=20
imapc_sasl_mechanisms=XOAUTH2 OAUTHBEARER PLAIN
rawlog_dir = /tmp/rawlog imapc_rawlog_dir = /tmp/rawlog
imapc_user=user@googlemail.com imapc_password=pw
# cat /tmp/rawlog/20241118-114553.246444.1.in 1731926753.488821 * OK Gimap ready for requests from <ip> <base64> 1731926753.503819 * CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UNSELECT IDLE NAMESPACE QUOTA ID XLIST CHILDREN X-GM-EXT-1 XYZZY SASL-IR AUTH=XOAUTH2 AUTH=PLAIN AUTH=PLAIN-CLIENTTOKEN AUTH=OAUTHBEARER 1731926753.503819 1 OK Thats all she wrote! <base64> 1731926753.806967 + <base64>
# cat /tmp/rawlog/20241118-114553.246444.1.out 1731926753.488935 1 CAPABILITY 1731926753.504048 2 AUTHENTICATE XOAUTH2 <base64>
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Sure, would be nice. I guess it would be best to put it to the migration page.
Aki
On 18/11/2024 13:23 EET Jan Naumann via dovecot <dovecot@dovecot.org> wrote:
Thank you very much! Did not know that there is this nice playground.
Do you think it would be fine that I will prepare a pull request for the documentation later to add this information for future reference? For me it was not clear that
imapc_passwordwould be the right place to provide the access/bearer token.Best, Jan
On 18.11.24 12:12, Aki Tuomi wrote:
For single account migration you can use google playground to get a token,
https://developers.google.com/oauthplayground/
just make sure it has the right scope(s) to work. You need the "bearer token".
Then you can do
doveadm -o imapc_password=<token here> -o imapc_sasl_mechanism=xoauth2 ... sync
Aki
On 18/11/2024 13:01 EET Jan Naumann via dovecot <dovecot@dovecot.org> wrote:
Dear Dovecot community,
I try to migrate a GMail mailbox to Dovecot using
doveadm backup -R imapc:. Since it seems that GMail disabled the login without XOAUTH2, I cannot figure out how to authenticate dovecot to GMail. Could you point me in the right direction? Thank you in advance!Best regards, Jan
Here the commands and config I am using:
# dovecot --version 2.3.19.1 (9b53102964)
# doveadm -D -c gmail.conf backup -R -u user-gmail imapc:
# cat gmail.conf !include /etc/dovecot/dovecot.conf
imapc_host=imap.gmail.com imapc_port=993 imapc_ssl=imaps imapc_features=rfc822.size fetch-headers gmail-migration mail_prefetch_count=20
imapc_sasl_mechanisms=XOAUTH2 OAUTHBEARER PLAIN
rawlog_dir = /tmp/rawlog imapc_rawlog_dir = /tmp/rawlog
imapc_user=user@googlemail.com imapc_password=pw
# cat /tmp/rawlog/20241118-114553.246444.1.in 1731926753.488821 * OK Gimap ready for requests from <ip> <base64> 1731926753.503819 * CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UNSELECT IDLE NAMESPACE QUOTA ID XLIST CHILDREN X-GM-EXT-1 XYZZY SASL-IR AUTH=XOAUTH2 AUTH=PLAIN AUTH=PLAIN-CLIENTTOKEN AUTH=OAUTHBEARER 1731926753.503819 1 OK Thats all she wrote! <base64> 1731926753.806967 + <base64>
# cat /tmp/rawlog/20241118-114553.246444.1.out 1731926753.488935 1 CAPABILITY 1731926753.504048 2 AUTHENTICATE XOAUTH2 <base64>
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Sorry for being off topic, but why are you deciding to move to dovecot? I have the impression the trend is that everyone is moving to google/outlook?
I try to migrate a GMail mailbox to Dovecot using
doveadm backup -R imapc:. Since it seems that GMail disabled the login without XOAUTH2, I cannot figure out how to authenticate dovecot to GMail. Could you point me in the right direction? Thank you in advance!
For me, I don't want big tech monitoring my emails.
On 18/11/2024 11:52, Marc via dovecot wrote:
Sorry for being off topic, but why are you deciding to move to dovecot? I have the impression the trend is that everyone is moving to google/outlook?
I try to migrate a GMail mailbox to Dovecot using
doveadm backup -R imapc:. Since it seems that GMail disabled the login without XOAUTH2, I cannot figure out how to authenticate dovecot to GMail. Could you point me in the right direction? Thank you in advance!
dovecot mailing list --dovecot@dovecot.org To unsubscribe send an email todovecot-leave@dovecot.org
Yes that is for me also. However I have the impression that this is becoming a smaller group (fast). I have clients that are doing even 'innovative' things and are moving to the outlook cloud. These big clouds are just adding more new features and are creating a more integrated environment that is quite appealing to users.
For me, I don't want big tech monitoring my emails.
Sorry for being off topic, but why are you deciding to move to dovecot? I have the impression the trend is that everyone is moving to google/outlook?
I try to migrate a GMail mailbox to Dovecot using
doveadm backup -R imapc:. Since it seems that GMail disabled the login without XOAUTH2, I cannot figure out how to authenticate dovecot to GMail. Could youOn 18/11/2024 11:52, Marc via dovecot wrote: point
me in the right direction? Thank you in advance!
dovecot mailing list --dovecot@dovecot.org To unsubscribe send an email todovecot-leave@dovecot.org
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On 18.11.24 12:52, Marc wrote:
Sorry for being off topic, but why are you deciding to move to dovecot? I have the impression the trend is that everyone is moving to google/outlook?
Oh, I am using dovecot for years as my primary (private) mail. Even the company I am working for is still using dovecot/exim (besides Exchange for the administration). The GMail account in question is an old one I just want to migrate now. Never used it as primary mail.
Why am I using dovecot? There are several issues I have with the services big tech offers:
Full control over my mail and not depending on a big tech company to decide what my quota is (or if I have to use some paid plan to get feature X), if the service is shut down at some future point, what AI models are trained on my messages, ...
Data protection: If another person/a tech company do not need to see my data/message, why should they? Sure, there a E2E encryption solutions as SMIME/PGP, but this works only with your tech-affine friends and do not protect unencrypted incoming mail from being monitored.
Standard (RFC) compliance. It is way to annoying to work around the specialities of Exchange/Google/... if you using mail for e.g. stuff like sending git patches to open source projects. Just try to send a mail over an Exchange relay without it is destroying the (valid) From-header field ;)
Flexibility of my mail setup. I want to have some alias which is forwarded to my main inbox but is archived in a separate mailbox shared with another person. Sure, just setup a second mailbox in dovecot and tell postfix how to handle the virtual mail address. Tasks like that are flexible to solve with a MTA/dovecot setup. Sure, you likely can do that with the big providers as well, but I am sure that there is sometimes a long way you have to go to solve some problems
Anyway, I am a big fan of dovecot and am very happy that this still available as solution while the big crowd is converting to Google/Microsoft.
Best, Jan
Not everyone. The EU is pushing hard for data to stay local. MS/Google will do what they know best: offer 0 support even to paying customers and jack up the prices once the competition dries up.
There will always be alternatives.
Scott
On Monday, 18/11/2024 at 06:52 Marc via dovecot wrote:
Sorry for being off topic, but why are you deciding to move to dovecot? I have the impression the trend is that everyone is moving to google/outlook?
I try to migrate a GMail mailbox to Dovecot using
doveadm backup -R imapc:. Since it seems that GMail disabled the login without
cannot figure out how to authenticate dovecot to GMail. Could you
XOAUTH2, I point
me in the right direction? Thank you in advance!
dovecot mailing list -- dovecot@dovecot.org To unsubscribe send an email to dovecot-leave@dovecot.org
Not everyone. The EU is pushing hard for data to stay local. MS/Google will do what they know best: offer 0 support even to paying customers and jack up the prices once the competition dries up.
You have already MS / Google data centres in the EU. And Apple is using European registered/located ip ranges for this safe browsing, what actually means give to Apple everything you visit.
There will always be alternatives.
Is that not contradictory to your "competition dries up"? If you look at the last 15 years I do not have the impression alternatives kept their market shares.
Data centres in the EU is not enough to ensure data stays local.
https://www.edps.europa.eu/press-publications/press-news/press-releases/2024...
As far as I know, the EU is pushing hard for alternatives to relying on US companies for all their needs.
For my second comment, yes competition will dry up but not disappear completely. And as soon as they go too far, alternatives will pop up.
Not to mention that they inevitably have huge drawbacks due to their (growing) size: MS365 and Google are responsible for a huge chunk of Spam and they don't even bother to block their outbound Spam, effectively strong-arming others to whitelist their ranges. So assuming they gain even more market share, all that Spam will stay internal to their network. Basically spamming and phishing their own customers to death because of their inadequate policies.
Finally I might add that the only real contender for e-mail is MS. Google is getting dumped as well in the enterprise space because their offer doesn't measure up to MS365.
Cheers,
Scott
On Monday, 18/11/2024 at 15:35 Marc via dovecot wrote:
Not everyone. The EU is pushing hard for data to stay local.
MS/Google
will do what they know best: offer 0 support even to paying customers and jack up the prices once the competition dries up.
You have already MS / Google data centres in the EU. And Apple is using European registered/located ip ranges for this safe browsing, what actually means give to Apple everything you visit.
There will always be alternatives.
Is that not contradictory to your "competition dries up"? If you look at the last 15 years I do not have the impression alternatives kept their market shares.
dovecot mailing list -- dovecot@dovecot.org To unsubscribe send an email to dovecot-leave@dovecot.org
On 11/18/24 16:04, Scott Q. via dovecot wrote:
As far as I know, the EU is pushing hard for alternatives to relying on US companies for all their needs.
FWIW, the eight or nine remaining smart people in the US are also pushing hard for alternatives to relying on US companies for all their needs!
-Dave-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On Mon, Nov 18, 2024 at 09:21:08AM -0500, Scott Q. via dovecot wrote:
Not everyone. The EU is pushing hard for data to stay local. MS/Google will do what they know best: offer 0 support even to paying customers and jack up the prices once the competition dries up.
???
There will always be alternatives.
???
Scott???
Microsft outlook and Google Gmail hosts most spammers on the Planet Earth.
On Monday, 18/11/2024 at 06:52 Marc via dovecot wrote:
Sorry for being off topic, but why are you deciding to move to dovecot? I have the impression the trend is that everyone is moving to google/outlook?
I try to migrate a GMail mailbox to Dovecot using
doveadm backup -R imapc:. Since it seems that GMail disabled the login withoutcannot figure out how to authenticate dovecot to GMail. Could you
XOAUTH2, I point
me in the right direction? Thank you in advance!
dovecot mailing list -- dovecot@dovecot.org To unsubscribe send an email to dovecot-leave@dovecot.org
dovecot mailing list -- dovecot@dovecot.org To unsubscribe send an email to dovecot-leave@dovecot.org
-- Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; Nova Scotia Vote Liberal!
(I forget who the original poster was.)
I try to migrate a GMail mailbox to Dovecot using
doveadm backup -R imapc:. Since it seems that GMail disabled the login without XOAUTH2, I cannot figure out how to authenticate dovecot to GMail. Could you point me in the right direction? Thank you in advance!
I just did this for my alpine mail reader, and it's not so simple. It may be simpler to use a mail reader that has XOAUTH2 built in, then connect to both Gmail and your mail account, then drag and drop all your mailboxes.
If you want to do it the hard way, the document for alpine might be useful for a single Gmail account, at least to set up the Gmail end.
https://alpineapp.email/alpine/alpine-info/misc/xoauth2.html#SettingUpGmailAfter that, you have to do some rigamrole to use these IDs to create the credentials you can use for IMAP authentication.
(Applicable only for alpine but show the interaction)
https://alpineapp.email/alpine/alpine-info/misc/AuthorizeAlpineGmail.htmlGood luck. Joseph Tam <jtam.home@gmail.com>
On 20.11.24 23:49, Joseph Tam via dovecot wrote:
I just did this for my alpine mail reader, and it's not so simple. It may be simpler to use a mail reader that has XOAUTH2 built in, then connect to both Gmail and your mail account, then drag and drop all your mailboxes.
If you want to do it the hard way, the document for alpine might be useful for a single Gmail account, at least to set up the Gmail end.
https://alpineapp.email/alpine/alpine-info/misc/ xoauth2.html#SettingUpGmail
After that, you have to do some rigamrole to use these IDs to create the credentials you can use for IMAP authentication.
(Applicable only for alpine but show the interaction) https://alpineapp.email/alpine/alpine-info/misc/ AuthorizeAlpineGmail.html
The answer from Aki Tuomi [1] to use the Google OAUTH was already very helpful for me. It worked out fine for me to copy the Bearer token from there. The use of copy the messages in Thunderbird was my backup option as well.
Good luck. Joseph Tam <jtam.home@gmail.com>
Best, Jan
[1] https://dovecot.org/mailman3/archives/list/dovecot@dovecot.org/message/TYAK5...
On 11/21/2024 6:07 AM MST Jan Naumann via dovecot <dovecot@dovecot.org> wrote:
On 20.11.24 23:49, Joseph Tam via dovecot wrote:
I just did this for my alpine mail reader, and it's not so simple. It may be simpler to use a mail reader that has XOAUTH2 built in, then connect to both Gmail and your mail account, then drag and drop all your mailboxes.
If you want to do it the hard way, the document for alpine might be useful for a single Gmail account, at least to set up the Gmail end.
https://alpineapp.email/alpine/alpine-info/misc/ xoauth2.html#SettingUpGmail
After that, you have to do some rigamrole to use these IDs to create the credentials you can use for IMAP authentication.
I encourage people that are interested in making OAUTH universally available for email protocols (without pre-registration) for all clients and servers to join/follow the MAILMAINT IETF working group: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/mailmaint/about/
In particular, this document on OAUTH public profiles: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jenkins-oauth-public/
There's also a second required autoconfig component, although the proposals currently posted are a bit outdated. (We are planning on moving forward with a much reduced version of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mailmaint-autoconfig/ , although it generally is the concept being looked at).
In short, in the (hopefully) very near future, you will be able to open a mail application, enter your email address as "setup", and then be presented with the auth screen of your local OAUTH provider.
michael
You can also enable Application Passwords in Gmail and use those via classic auth.
Also allow user to enable less secure apps, enable less secure apps as the user, then add the app passwords.
Scott
On Thursday, 21/11/2024 at 08:07 Jan Naumann via dovecot wrote:
On 20.11.24 23:49, Joseph Tam via dovecot wrote:
I just did this for my alpine mail reader, and it's not so simple. It may be simpler to use a mail reader that has XOAUTH2 built in, then connect to both Gmail and your mail account, then drag and drop all your mailboxes.
If you want to do it the hard way, the document for alpine might be useful for a single Gmail account, at least to set up the Gmail end.
https://alpineapp.email/alpine/alpine-info/misc/ xoauth2.html#SettingUpGmail
After that, you have to do some rigamrole to use these IDs to create the credentials you can use for IMAP authentication.
(Applicable only for alpine but show the interaction) https://alpineapp.email/alpine/alpine-info/misc/ AuthorizeAlpineGmail.html
The answer from Aki Tuomi [1] to use the Google OAUTH was already very
helpful for me. It worked out fine for me to copy the Bearer token from there. The use of copy the messages in Thunderbird was my backup option as well.
Good luck. Joseph Tam
Best, Jan
[1] https://dovecot.org/mailman3/archives/list/dovecot@dovecot.org/message/TYAK5...
dovecot mailing list -- dovecot@dovecot.org To unsubscribe send an email to dovecot-leave@dovecot.org
Microsft outlook and Google Gmail hosts most spammers on the Planet Earth.
Nah, the worst offenders are OVH and Contabo, followed by digital sewer, then gmail :)
If you make spf -all for gmail that helps a lot. However there are still quite a few 'my family member is so good with computers integrators' that tell their clients they it is ok to use an ip that does not even match spf.
On 22/11/2024 20:18, Marc via dovecot wrote:
Microsft outlook and Google Gmail hosts most spammers on the Planet Earth. Nah, the worst offenders are OVH and Contabo, followed by digital sewer, then gmail :)
If you make spf -all for gmail that helps a lot. However there are still quite a few 'my family member is so good with computers integrators' that tell their clients they it is ok to use an ip that does not even match spf.
I know what ya sayin :) but what's worse, is there are too many actual pros in this industry who are lazy f...rs and set and forget, just wanting to collect their big fat pay cheques for minimal effort.
-- Regards, Noel Butler
On 11/22/24 20:29, Noel Butler via dovecot wrote:
Microsft outlook and Google Gmail hosts most spammers on the Planet Earth. Nah, the worst offenders are OVH and Contabo, followed by digital sewer, then gmail :)
If you make spf -all for gmail that helps a lot. However there are still quite a few 'my family member is so good with computers integrators' that tell their clients they it is ok to use an ip that does not even match spf.
I know what ya sayin :) but what's worse, is there are too many actual pros in this industry who are lazy f...rs and set and forget, just wanting to collect their big fat pay cheques for minimal effort.
Sounds like I'm not the only one doing a little drinking tonight. ;)
This isn't exactly on-topic, but does anyone know of any mailing lists for mail admins, for discussion of deliverability (not the "bulk mailing" kind!), Google's awful behavior, etc?
-Dave-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 23/11/2024 11:34, Dave McGuire via dovecot wrote:
there are still quite a few 'my family member is so good with computers integrators' that tell their clients they it is ok to use an ip that does not even match spf.
I know what ya sayin :) but what's worse, is there are too many actual pros in this industry who are lazy f...rs and set and forget, just wanting to collect their big fat pay cheques for minimal effort. Sounds like I'm not the only one doing a little drinking tonight. ;)
This isn't exactly on-topic, but does anyone know of any mailing lists for mail admins, for discussion of deliverability (not the "bulk mailing" kind!), Google's awful behavior, etc?
There is a list for "mail admins", but they are highly selective about what you can talk about and who you can discuss, its run by anally retentive pricks who ban those who dare question them, no abuse, just list nannies over ride each others decisions with big power trips, they've lost a few admins from some large service providers over the past few years, meaning the list members have lost speedy access to have issues with those services resolved, they just join the queue like hundreds of others each day now.
disclaimer: yes, I am one of them, kicked because I (non abusively) questioned a decision by the list owner who gave me a warning, only then to be kicked by one of his power hungry minions. Honestly, it's no loss though, you have better quality discussions on reddit than on mailop :)
-- Regards, Noel Butler
On 11/22/24 21:02, Noel Butler via dovecot wrote:
This isn't exactly on-topic, but does anyone know of any mailing lists for mail admins, for discussion of deliverability (not the "bulk mailing" kind!), Google's awful behavior, etc?
There is a list for "mail admins", but they are highly selective about what you can talk about and who you can discuss, its run by anally retentive pricks who ban those who dare question them, no abuse, just list nannies over ride each others decisions with big power trips, they've lost a few admins from some large service providers over the past few years, meaning the list members have lost speedy access to have issues with those services resolved, they just join the queue like hundreds of others each day now.
disclaimer: yes, I am one of them, kicked because I (non abusively) questioned a decision by the list owner who gave me a warning, only then to be kicked by one of his power hungry minions. Honestly, it's no loss though, you have better quality discussions on reddit than on mailop :)
Ah, the "brave when behind a keyboard" types. I hate that BS.
I'm really not a reddit guy, though, I'm a mailing list guy. :-(
-Dave-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 23/11/2024 12:05, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 11/22/24 21:02, Noel Butler via dovecot wrote: This isn't exactly on-topic, but does anyone know of any mailing lists for mail admins, for discussion of deliverability (not the "bulk mailing" kind!), Google's awful behavior, etc? There is a list for "mail admins", but they are highly selective about what you can talk about and who you can discuss, its run by anally retentive pricks who ban those who dare question them, no abuse, just list nannies over ride each others decisions with big power trips, they've lost a few admins from some large service providers over the past few years, meaning the list members have lost speedy access to have issues with those services resolved, they just join the queue like hundreds of others each day now.
disclaimer: yes, I am one of them, kicked because I (non abusively) questioned a decision by the list owner who gave me a warning, only then to be kicked by one of his power hungry minions. Honestly, it's no loss though, you have better quality discussions on reddit than on mailop :)
Ah, the "brave when behind a keyboard" types. I hate that BS.
I'm really not a reddit guy, though, I'm a mailing list guy. :-(
-DaveYep, me too, especially since a couple years ago when reddit changed their interface, so much more bloated html code now, I find myself there less and less these days, I don't have a lot of time for lists much let alone forums, life is too busy, and much more fun ;)
As we are quite off topic now, I'll bow out as it's time to head to the cricket.
-- Regards, Noel Butler
Hi,
On 23/11/2024 05:34, Dave McGuire via dovecot wrote:
[...] This isn't exactly on-topic, but does anyone know of any mailing lists for mail admins, for discussion of deliverability (not the "bulk mailing" kind!), Google's awful behavior, etc?
You have the 'mailop' mailing-list. It's " a mailing list and community designed to improve the dialogue and build relationships between mail operators."
https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
-- Willy Manga @ongolaboy https://ongola.blogspot.com/
On 18/11/2024 21:52, Marc via dovecot wrote:
Sorry for being off topic, but why are you deciding to move to dovecot? I have the impression the trend is that everyone is moving to google/outlook?
In June 2023, we ran a poll, below is results of primary use of email, the requirement was imap/pop3 be an ISP or private server, if they used imap with or web interface to gmail, they were asked to select freemail, for what its worth, there was only about 900 votes, and 95% of them were from Oceania, Asia, SA, Canada, and select parts of Europe (IT, DE) there were only a handful from US though, who are pretty screwed with FISA and Stored Communications Act etc anyway so they likely don't care either way :)
On 22/11/2024 20:04, Noel Butler via dovecot wrote:
On 18/11/2024 21:52, Marc via dovecot wrote:
Sorry for being off topic, but why are you deciding to move to dovecot? I have the impression the trend is that everyone is moving to google/outlook?
In June 2023, we ran a poll, below is results of primary use of email, the requirement was imap/pop3 be an ISP or private server, if they used imap with or web interface to gmail, they were asked to select freemail, for what its worth, there was only about 900 votes, and 95% of them were from Oceania, Asia, SA, Canada, and select parts of Europe (IT, DE) there were only a handful from US though, who are pretty screwed with FISA and Stored Communications Act etc anyway so they likely don't care either way :)
Ahhh, mailman stripped the whole point of my reply, list didnt like inline image... but anyway... Freemail 10% Webmail 9% pop3 36% imap 48%
-- Regards, Noel Butler
Sorry for being off topic, but why are you deciding to move to dovecot? I have the impression the trend is that everyone is moving
to
google/outlook?
In June 2023, we ran a poll, below is results of primary use of email, the requirement was imap/pop3 be an ISP or private server, if they used imap with or web interface to gmail, they were asked to select freemail, for what its worth, there was only about 900 votes, and 95% of them were from Oceania, Asia, SA, Canada, and select parts of Europe (IT, DE) there were only a handful from US though, who are pretty screwed with FISA and Stored Communications Act etc anyway so they likely don't care either way :)
Ahhh, mailman stripped the whole point of my reply, list didnt like inline image... but anyway... Freemail 10% Webmail 9% pop3 36% imap 48%
:) I already wanted to ask.
ps. I think these guys have had their best times https://zonecheck.org/ not really up to date info
On 22/11/2024 23:33, Marc via dovecot wrote:
ps. I think these guys have had their best times https://zonecheck.org/ not really up to date info
?
-- Regards, Noel Butler
ps. I think these guys have had their best times https://zonecheck.org/ not really up to date info
?
Your provider is using this to estimate if a party is spam and block your email. I prefer a system where you actually block someone for having send spam. Since I am not sending newsletters or so and this infrastructure I use is low volume, nothing outgoing is detected as spam.
On 23/11/2024 20:18, Marc via dovecot wrote:
?
Your provider is using this to estimate if a party is spam and block your email. I prefer a system where you actually block someone for having send spam. Since I am not sending newsletters or so and this infrastructure I use is low volume, nothing outgoing is detected as spam.
psssst I am the provider, what I say goes :)
the tests detect poorly set up DNS which can lead to deliverability issues. It's my choice to include that test on some servers, its also not the final judge, there are other tests, and your providers rep is tipping you over, only just though.
-- Regards, Noel Butler
Your provider is using this to estimate if a party is spam and block your email. I prefer a system where you actually block someone for having send spam. Since I am not sending newsletters or so and this infrastructure I use is low volume, nothing outgoing is detected as spam.
psssst I am the provider, what I say goes :)
the tests detect poorly set up DNS which can lead to deliverability issues. It's my choice to include that test on some servers, its also
But now you are like ms/google/letsencrypt. We decide how you should setup your servers, we decide how you setup your dns, we decide you are not allowed to block the amazon cloud etc.
not the final judge, there are other tests, and your providers rep is tipping you over, only just though.
No way to little volume. You should focus on that this system is not updating its data, maybe because it is on a shared network that is being blocked because of unnecessary scraping?
On 24/11/2024 22:03, Marc via dovecot wrote:
But now you are like ms/google/letsencrypt. We decide how you should setup your servers, we decide how you setup your dns, we decide you are not allowed to block the amazon cloud etc.
WTF drugs are you on, my organisation my rules.
and who said anything about not allowed to block amazon, I have a couple of amazon class C's blacklisted here, dont answer that, it was a rhetorical statement.
No way to little volume. You should focus on that this system is not updating its data, maybe because it is on a shared network that is being blocked because of unnecessary scraping?
This is off topic, so for my last...
I dont care how big or little ones volume is, it's the quality thats taken into account, and if you're on a shared IP, its the risk that you elect to take, that aint my problem, have a great week.
-- Regards, Noel Butler
But now you are like ms/google/letsencrypt. We decide how you should setup your servers, we decide how you setup your dns, we decide you are not allowed to block the amazon cloud etc.
WTF drugs are you on, my organisation my rules.
What education did you acquire? With your logics you configure your spam servers like this "I don't want to receive spam, so if the last octet of the connecting ip is uneven, I will block it"
and who said anything about not allowed to block amazon, I have a couple of amazon class C's blacklisted here, dont answer that, it was a rhetorical statement.
No way to little volume. You should focus on that this system is not updating its data, maybe because it is on a shared network that is being blocked because of unnecessary scraping?
This is off topic, so for my last...
I dont care how big or little ones volume is, it's the quality thats taken into account, and if you're on a shared IP, its the risk that you elect to take, that aint my problem, have a great week.
Your system reporting false positives, that is what I am trying to tell you!
On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 10:34 PM Marc via dovecot <dovecot@dovecot.org> wrote:
But now you are like ms/google/letsencrypt. We decide how you should setup your servers, we decide how you setup your dns, we decide you are not allowed to block the amazon cloud etc.
WTF drugs are you on, my organisation my rules.
What education did you acquire? With your logics you configure your spam servers like this "I don't want to receive spam, so if the last octet of the connecting ip is uneven, I will block it"
ISP's do this all the time, welcome to the internet!
and who said anything about not allowed to block amazon, I have a couple
of amazon class C's blacklisted here, dont answer that, it was a rhetorical statement.
No way to little volume. You should focus on that this system is not updating its data, maybe because it is on a shared network that is being blocked because of unnecessary scraping?
This is off topic, so for my last...
I dont care how big or little ones volume is, it's the quality thats taken into account, and if you're on a shared IP, its the risk that you elect to take, that aint my problem, have a great week.
Your system reporting false positives, that is what I am trying to tell you!
Maybe that is in your opinion because you can not send him direct mail? Why are you sending him direct mail anyway? This is a mailing list, you should only be replying to the list.
To outsiders this is kind of cryptic, but sounds like you failed DNS testing that Noel uses in making an accept/reject decision so he is blocking you? So rather than sit here generating noise, making this original thread useless now, you go fix you DNS problems and who knows, maybe you won't get blocked, if you are not going to do that, live with your decision and move on so this thread can get back to normal.
Lozza
Your system reporting false positives, that is what I am trying to tell you!
Maybe that is in your opinion because you can not send him direct mail? Why
No, it is not an opinion it is a fact. That is the huge difference here. There is some sort of logic in my reasoning, while ignoring false positives and working with old data has little.
are you sending him direct mail anyway? This is a mailing list, you should only be replying to the list.
I also don't know, I guess outlook does this by default, I am not even looking at it :)
To outsiders this is kind of cryptic, but sounds like you failed DNS testing that Noel uses in making an accept/reject decision so he is blocking you?
His data is old and incorrect. Since when has a dns configuration to do with spam? From my experience it is often that such weird measures are created out of a lack of ability to really address and implement a targeted solution.
He can't even prove there was spam send from this network. If I block a network, I at least make sure we have original message and store it. So we can say "Your network send this on that date".
So rather than sit here generating noise, making this original thread useless now, you go fix you DNS problems and who knows, maybe you won't get blocked, if you are not going to do that, live with your decision and move on so this thread can get back to normal.
Up until now I did not notice much expertise from you, for me to take your advises. Besides, this does illustrate the 'irrationality' and lack of innovative thinking in smaller companies which drives people into the direction of large providers like gmail and outlook.com
In all fairness here, Gmail/Outlook play by their own rules and people just accept them because it's free.
Try sending a spam message that Gmail sends you, back to them and see what happens.
Yeah.
On Tuesday, 26/11/2024 at 05:14 Marc via dovecot wrote:
Your system reporting false positives, that is what I am trying to tell you!
Maybe that is in your opinion because you can not send him direct mail? Why
No, it is not an opinion it is a fact. That is the huge difference here. There is some sort of logic in my reasoning, while ignoring false positives and working with old data has little.
are you sending him direct mail anyway? This is a mailing list, you should only be replying to the list.
I also don't know, I guess outlook does this by default, I am not even looking at it :)
To outsiders this is kind of cryptic, but sounds like you failed DNS testing that Noel uses in making an accept/reject decision so he is blocking you?
His data is old and incorrect. Since when has a dns configuration to do with spam? From my experience it is often that such weird measures are created out of a lack of ability to really address and implement a targeted solution.
He can't even prove there was spam send from this network. If I block a network, I at least make sure we have original message and store it. So we can say "Your network send this on that date".
So rather than sit here generating noise, making this original thread useless now, you go fix you DNS problems and who knows, maybe you won't get blocked, if you are not going to do that, live with your decision and move on so this thread can get back to normal.
Up until now I did not notice much expertise from you, for me to take your advises. Besides, this does illustrate the 'irrationality' and lack of innovative thinking in smaller companies which drives people into the direction of large providers like gmail and outlook.com
dovecot mailing list -- dovecot@dovecot.org To unsubscribe send an email to dovecot-leave@dovecot.org
In all fairness here, Gmail/Outlook play by their own rules and people just accept them because it's free.
Try sending a spam message that Gmail sends you, back to them and see what happens.
It is even worse, they just accept emails with stat=Sent and then delete emails without notifications. I am currently trying to get the EU to take such behaviour into their market abuse cases.
On Wed, Nov 27, 2024 at 3:53 AM Marc <Marc@f1-outsourcing.eu> wrote:
Try sending a spam message that Gmail sends you, back to them and see what happens.
It is even worse, they just accept emails with stat=Sent and then delete emails without notifications. I am currently trying to get the EU to take such behaviour into their market abuse cases.
Plenty of us do that, SENT just means you passed blacklists, doesn't mean
you've passed spam checks.
Try sending a spam message that Gmail sends you, back to them and
see
what happens.
It is even worse, they just accept emails with stat=Sent and then delete emails without notifications. I am currently trying to get the EU to take such behaviour into their market abuse cases.
Plenty of us do that, SENT just means you passed blacklists, doesn't mean you've passed spam checks.
Incorrect Sent means the receiving server has correctly received the transmitted message. It has nothing to do with spam or not spam.
Besides it is very uncommon to delete messages without any notifications to sender or recipient. You are processing someone else's data, so I would say it is even unethical to just dump stuff.
On Wed, Nov 27, 2024 at 10:31 PM Marc <Marc@f1-outsourcing.eu> wrote:
Try sending a spam message that Gmail sends you, back to them and
see
what happens.
It is even worse, they just accept emails with stat=Sent and then delete emails without notifications. I am currently trying to get the EU to take such behaviour into their market abuse cases.
Plenty of us do that, SENT just means you passed blacklists, doesn't mean you've passed spam checks.
Incorrect Sent means the receiving server has correctly received the transmitted message. It has nothing to do with spam or not spam.
I more or less said that, you are a mail administrator yes? then you know bloody damn well that 99% of spam checks are carried out after reception of the mail.go find a child and ask them to explain what I wrote you
Besides it is very uncommon to delete messages without any notifications to
sender or recipient. You are processing someone else's data, so I would say it is even unethical to just dump stuff.
uncommon? what planet are you on, look now I *know* you are trolling, go away you foolish person.
Seriously, dick head do not reply to me or send me any more personal emails.
*PLONK*
I see this thread is getting quite personal, but if I may comment on something you wrote.
I more or less said that, you are a mail administrator yes? then you know bloody damn well that 99% of spam checks are carried out after reception of the mail
depends what you define by reception. We perform spam checks on the DATA portion of the mail reception and can refuse a message in that segment. Therefore, spam check is done on the message before accepting it.
Scott
On Friday, 29/11/2024 at 10:28 Laura Steynes via dovecot wrote:
On Wed, Nov 27, 2024 at 10:31 PM Marc wrote:
Try sending a spam message that Gmail sends you, back to them
see
what happens.
It is even worse, they just accept emails with stat=Sent and
and then
delete
emails without notifications. I am currently trying to get the EU to take such behaviour into their market abuse cases.
Plenty of us do that, SENT just means you passed blacklists, doesn't mean you've passed spam checks.
Incorrect Sent means the receiving server has correctly received the transmitted message. It has nothing to do with spam or not spam.
I more or less said that, you are a mail administrator yes? then you know bloody damn well that 99% of spam checks are carried out after reception of the mail.go find a child and ask them to explain what I wrote you
Besides it is very uncommon to delete messages without any notifications to
sender or recipient. You are processing someone else's data, so I would say it is even unethical to just dump stuff.
uncommon? what planet are you on, look now I *know* you are trolling, go away you foolish person.
Seriously, dick head do not reply to me or send me any more personal emails.
*PLONK*
dovecot mailing list -- dovecot@dovecot.org To unsubscribe send an email to dovecot-leave@dovecot.org
I more or less said that, you are a mail administrator yes? then you know bloody damn well that 99% of spam checks are carried out after reception of the mail
depends what you define by reception. We perform spam checks on the DATA portion of the mail reception and can refuse a message in that segment. Therefore, spam check is done on the message before accepting it.
of course that is the most logical and efficient approach catching spam as soon as possible.
Hi Scott,
On Sat, Nov 30, 2024 at 2:10 AM Scott Q. <qmail@top-consulting.net> wrote:
I see this thread is getting quite personal, but if I may comment on something you wrote.
I more or less said that, you are a mail administrator yes? then you know bloody damn well that 99% of spam checks are carried out after reception of the mail
depends what you define by reception. We perform spam checks on the DATA portion of the mail reception and can refuse a message in that segment. Therefore, spam check is done on the message before accepting it.
TLDR: reasonableness for testing in DATA depends on your traffic levels
LV: I understand some small players may do this, however most don't, In my "part-time contractor role" outside of my day-job, nearly everyone uses postfix/amavisd/dovecot in the years I've seen nearly none of them use milters to test they accept it then hand it off to spamassassin via amavisd, even of the couple of exim installs I've worked on, only one used a weird integration that tested in DATA, but as a small law firm they weren't high traffic so can do that.
In my regular day-job role as network administrator for a ISP, and 2 other ISP's over past 16 years, none have done this, these ISP's are in Asia and U.S., if a message is accepted it then passed on to anti spam measures, including current employer who operates 14 inbound MX's alone, they are no gmail or outlook but are high traffic where each inbound machine processes around 360 connections per minute, you do the sums on the amount of delays that will incrementally occur testing in DATA to still deliver mail in reasonable time after received, won't take long before those machines are to be running way behind and trigger Hi-Q alerts.
Loz
Replace SA by rspamd ? SA is unbearably slow. You have 14 mx hosts, get 14 rspamd vhosts and I doubt you'll have any issues.
Scott
On Friday, 29/11/2024 at 22:07 Laura Steynes via dovecot wrote:
Hi Scott,
On Sat, Nov 30, 2024 at 2:10 AM Scott Q. wrote:
I see this thread is getting quite personal, but if I may comment on something you wrote.
I more or less said that, you are a mail administrator yes? then you know bloody damn well that 99% of spam checks are carried out after reception of the mail
depends what you define by reception. We perform spam checks on the DATA portion of the mail reception and can refuse a message in that segment. Therefore, spam check is done on the message before accepting it.
TLDR: reasonableness for testing in DATA depends on your traffic levels
LV: I understand some small players may do this, however most don't, In my "part-time contractor role" outside of my day-job, nearly everyone uses postfix/amavisd/dovecot in the years I've seen nearly none of them use milters to test they accept it then hand it off to spamassassin via amavisd, even of the couple of exim installs I've worked on, only one used a weird integration that tested in DATA, but as a small law firm they weren't high traffic so can do that.
In my regular day-job role as network administrator for a ISP, and 2 other ISP's over past 16 years, none have done this, these ISP's are in Asia and U.S., if a message is accepted it then passed on to anti spam measures, including current employer who operates 14 inbound MX's alone, they are no gmail or outlook but are high traffic where each inbound machine processes around 360 connections per minute, you do the sums on the amount of delays that will incrementally occur testing in DATA to still deliver mail in reasonable time after received, won't take long before those machines are to be running way behind and trigger Hi-Q alerts.
Loz
dovecot mailing list -- dovecot@dovecot.org To unsubscribe send an email to dovecot-leave@dovecot.org
On Sat, Nov 30, 2024 at 11:01 PM Scott Q. <qmail@top-consulting.net> wrote:
Replace SA by rspamd ? SA is unbearably slow. You have 14 mx hosts, get 14 rspamd vhosts and I doubt you'll have any issues.
Scott
Oh, I never said we at dayjob use spamassassin :D That was at most places I do my moonlight contracting with, and they are small businesses so no big traffic levels and SA seems snappy enough, we here at dayjob did look at rspamd about 3 years back, did some tests, we found it slower than what we use today, we also found it on par with spamassassin milter, although both slightly faster than spammassasin with amavisd, perhaps rspamd has much improved since 3 years, If it has I'd like to see some independent test results, as we need a serious compelling reason to modify what we know works very well and resource happy.
Must be off kids are complaining they'll be late for sport, sport be damned, it's minus10 outside! They run around whilst I get pneumonia :D Have good weekend. Loz
I can remember looking at rspamd years ago. To me it looks like a choas of applied rules. I can remember asking these devs some questions about rule processing order, and they could not even answer them. Do they still make own graphs? That already tells you their whole approach is old-fashioned.
If you want full control and efficiency you should take this mailfromd. This maintainer Sergey is also an ace in his area of expertise.
Replace SA by rspamd ? SA is unbearably slow. You have 14 mx hosts, get 14 rspamd vhosts and I doubt you'll have any issues.
Scott
Hi Scott,
On Sat, Nov 30, 2024 at 2:10 AM Scott Q. wrote:
I see this thread is getting quite personal, but if I may comment on something you wrote.
I more or less said that, you are a mail administrator yes? then you know bloody damn well that 99% of spam checks are carried out after reception of the mail
depends what you define by reception. We perform spam checks on the DATA portion of the mail reception and can refuse a message in that segment. Therefore, spam check is done on the message before accepting it.
TLDR: reasonableness for testing in DATA depends on your traffic levels
LV: I understand some small players may do this, however most don't, In my "part-time contractor role" outside of my day-job, nearly everyone uses postfix/amavisd/dovecot in the years I've seen nearly none of them use milters to test they accept it then hand it off to spamassassin via amavisd, even of the couple of exim installs I've worked on, only one used a weird integration that tested in DATA, but as a small law firm they weren't high traffic so can do that.
In my regular day-job role as network administrator for a ISP, and 2 other ISP's over past 16 years, none have done this, these ISP's are in Asia and U.S., if a message is accepted it then passed on to anti spam measures, including current employer who operates 14 inbound MX's alone, they are no gmail or outlook but are high traffic where each inbound machine processes around 360 connections per minute, you do the sums on the amount of delays that will incrementally occur testing in DATA to still deliver mail in reasonable time after received, won't take long before those machines are to be running way behind and trigger Hi-Q alerts.
Loz
dovecot mailing list -- dovecot@dovecot.org To unsubscribe send an email to dovecot-leave@dovecot.org
dovecot mailing list -- dovecot@dovecot.org To unsubscribe send an email to dovecot-leave@dovecot.org
Incorrect Sent means the receiving server has correctly received the transmitted message. It has nothing to do with spam or not spam.
I more or less said that, you are a mail administrator yes? then you know bloody damn well that 99% of spam checks are carried out after reception of
That is when you are dumb email processor and are not having a 'save the environment by consuming less energy' attitude. First you try and catch as much as possible at these stages before data ... eom
connect helo envfrom envrcpt
You should be able to catch >40% especially the reverse dns check is getting a lot.
Besides it is very uncommon to delete messages without any notifications to
sender or recipient. You are processing someone else's data, so I would say it is even unethical to just dump stuff.
uncommon? what planet are you on, look now I *know* you are trolling, go away you foolish person.
Seriously, dick head do not reply to me or send me any more personal emails.
You have to complain to Microsoft they are making me write you!!!! :D
No wonder people are moving to gmail/outlook. See that is why I wrote I would not accept your advise, you don't have the expertise to advise people.
Besides I wonder if it is even legal to delete someone else's data without any notifications. Especially since this EU is so focussed on that consumers own their data. As a service provider you are deleting someone else's data. Rejecting is a totally different case as you are not accepting to receive their data.
On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 8:14 PM Marc <Marc@f1-outsourcing.eu> wrote:
Maybe that is in your opinion because you can not send him direct mail? Why
No, it is not an opinion it is a fact. That is the huge difference here. There is some sort of logic in my reasoning, while ignoring false positives and working with old data has little.
In your opinion, like most of us here who run a service for others, we
make the decisions on what blacklists we use, what anti spam rules we use, we decide to use DMARC and block failures, if he or anyone runs other tests, so be it, who are you or I to say its wrong, it's not, it's just _different_
To outsiders this is kind of cryptic, but sounds like you failed DNS testing that Noel uses in making an accept/reject decision so he is blocking you?
His data is old and incorrect. Since when has a dns configuration to do with spam? From my experience it is often that such weird measures are created out of a lack of ability to really address and implement a targeted solution.
I guess this relates to the zonecheck.org you mentioned? So your DNS was more messed up than this?
DELEGATION ERROR IP 87.233.156.132 refers to multiple nameservers ( ns1.roosit.com; ns1.roosit.nl). DELEGATION ERROR IP 87.233.156.133 refers to multiple nameservers ( ns2.roosit.com; ns2.roosit.nl). DELEGATION ERROR Parent has nameserver(s) not listed at the child ( ns1.roosit.com; ns2.roosit.com). DELEGATION ERROR None of the nameservers listed at the parent are listed at the child. CONNECTIVITY WARNING All authoritative nameservers have their IPv4 addresses in the same AS (15703
The following name server(s) are announced in the same IPv4 prefix ( 87.233.128.0/18): "ns1.roosit.com/87.233.156.132; ns1.roosit.nl/87.233.156.132; ns2.roosit.com/87.233.156.133; ns2.roosit.nl/87.233.156.133"
You're right, zonecheck information is wrong, it says the same /18 but goodness me, it's in the same /24 which is worse, since nobody accepts BGP prefixes less than 24, so both your DNS servers are gone if your routes flap.
He can't even prove there was spam send from this network. If I block a
network, I at least make sure we have original message and store it. So we can say "Your network send this on that date".
Why does anyone have to prove anything to you? That's right, nobody does, if he blocks more than a /32 thats his choice, I'm sure I read he say something about others in your IP range, perhaps he played wack a mole game then decided to stop wasting his time and blacklists the /24
So rather than sit here generating noise, making this
original thread useless now, you go fix you DNS problems and who knows, maybe you won't get blocked, if you are not going to do that, live with your decision and move on so this thread can get back to normal.
Up until now I did not notice much expertise from you, for me to take your advises. Besides, this does illustrate the 'irrationality' and lack of innovative thinking in smaller companies which drives people into the direction of large providers like gmail and outlook.com
I've been on here, postfix, NANOG and a bunch of lists for many years, I don't post for the sake of posting like some.
On 18.11.24 12:52, Marc via dovecot wrote:
Sorry for being off topic, but why are you deciding to move to dovecot? I have the impression the trend is that everyone is moving to google/outlook?
Strongly depends on your bubble and region.
At least me: nope. We migrate only from cloud to on-prem and from on-prem Microsoft to on-prem Open Source. As there is a need for it. I am not happy with the current centralization and dependency on these tech giants.
There is a sane countermovement which is happy to use Open-Xchange (Enterprise, even though OX surely did not recognize us as we do mostly consulting for Enterprise) and Dovecot+RC+DAViCAL. At least we send every possible customer this way. We might not be the majority but "everybody" is surly not moving to Google or Exchange Online.
-- Regards Andreas Haerter
foundata GmbH Steinhäuserstr. 20 76135 Karlsruhe
Sitz der Gesellschaft: Karlsruhe Registergericht: Amtsgericht Mannheim, HRB 714807 Geschäftsführung: Andreas Haerter USt-IdNr.: DE284122682
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