Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive - BUG REPORTS!
Hello Timo,
I have scheduled some time to carry through the test requested by Aki.
I will add responding to you as part of that process.
Not sure if I have said or done anything to offend you, as your tone appears quite abrasive, even where you do not have an actual response to an observation.
It is my view that it is a privilege to provide an open source platform, and therefore a responsibility wherever feasible not only to properly maintain and support it, but also to properly document it; both of which from my experience and findings to date, Dovecot have failed to do.
Kind regards,
Arnold Opio Oree Chief Executive Officer Parallax Digital Technologies
arnoldoree@parallaxdt.com
tel : +44 (0) 333 577 8587 fax : +44 (0) 20 8711 2477
Parallax Digital Technologies is a trading name of Parallax Global Limited. U.K. Co. No. 08836288
The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are to delete this e-mail immediately, disregard its contents and disclose them to no other persons.
-----Original Message----- From: Timo Sirainen via dovecot dovecot@dovecot.org Reply-To: Timo Sirainen timo@sirainen.com To: Arnold Opio Oree arnold.oree@parallaxict.com Cc: Dovecot Mailing List dovecot@dovecot.org Subject: Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive - BUG REPORTS! Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 11:09:57 +0300
On 7 Jul 2019, at 18.12, Arnold Opio Oree via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org> wrote:
Dovecot Team,
I'd like to report a number of bugs, that are to my view all critical.
It would help to get your doveconf -n, example command lines causing the problems and the error messages it outputs or what the wrong behavior looks like in filesystem. It's now rather difficult to guess what exactly you tried and what happened.
Also what kind of output does readpst make? I'm not sure why you're using DIRNAMEs here.
doveadm-sync -1/general
- If DIRNAMEs are not different between command line and mail_location doveadm sync will fail, saying that the source and destination directories are the same
This sounds very strange. I'm not sure what exactly you did, and I couldn't reproduce with a small test.
- The -n / -N flags do not work, and a sync will fail strangely if location is specified in the namespace definition
Again, sounds strange.
- Adds mbox to path name under mailbox directory (where syncing from an mbox source)
Probably with different parameters you could avoid it.
Not having the mailboxes at source named the same as those at destination causes errors and partial sync
Not having the target mailboxes formatted to receive the sync (/<mailboxroot>/DIRNAME/) will cause sync errors.
I don't understand these. Target mailboxes are supposed to be empty initially, and after the initial sync they should be in the expected format. Why would they be different?
doveadm-sync
- With large synchronizations UIDs are corrupted where multiple syncs are executed and the program can no longer synchronize
What exactly is the error message?
dovecot
- Panics and fails to expand ~ to user home: observed cases are where multiple namespaces are being used
Panic message and more details would also help.
With regards to the last error that I requested help on i.e. \Noselect. This has been resolved more-or-less by the workarounds that I have implemented for the bugs reported above.
I have seen a number of threads whilst researching the \Noselect issue where people have been very confused. My finding was that \Noselect is a function of the IMAP specification server-side implementation RFC3501 ( https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3501#section-6.3.6). And for me the server was returning directories with \Noselect because the mailboxes were malformed on account of dovadm-sync errors. In order to fix this I formed a bash command to transverse the mailbox hierarchy and create the missing folders critical to the sdbox format, namely DIRNAME.
Nowadays we have also an option to disable creation of \Noselect folders, because they confuse people. Using mail_location = ...:NO- NOSELECT - It won't affect existing folders immediately though.
-----Original Message----- From: Arnold Opio Oree arnoldoree@parallaxict.com Reply-To: arnoldoree@parallaxict.com To: Aki Tuomi aki.tuomi@open-xchange.com, Dovecot Mailing List < dovecot@dovecot.org> Cc: debian-release@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive - BUG REPORTS! Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 13:21:51 +0100
Hello Aki,
Thanks for looking into these.
I will as requested attempt the relevant procedures under Dovecot 2.3.6.
To make the test fair, I will need to fork the relevant production groupware stack (which is now stable and in operation, with our enterprise (email) data successfully migrated from Microsoft Exchange) to a new staging server; given that the current staging server is now of a materially different configuration to the production server (where the most controlled observations of these bugs were made).
Kindly give me some time, as I have an urgent internal openstack deployment project to kick-off, that has been delayed by an overrun of this internal groupware stack deployment project.
Best regards,
Arnold Opio Oree Chief Executive Officer Parallax Digital Technologies
arnoldoree@parallaxdt.com
tel : +44 (0) 333 577 8587 fax : +44 (0) 20 8711 2477
Parallax Digital Technologies is a trading name of Parallax Global Limited. U.K. Co. No. 08836288
The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are to delete this e-mail immediately, disregard its contents and disclose them to no other persons.
-----Original Message----- From: Aki Tuomi via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org
Reply-To: Aki Tuomi < aki.tuomi@open-xchange.com
To: arnoldoree@parallaxict.com , Arnold Opio Oree < arnold.oree@parallaxict.com
, Arnold Opio Oree via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org
Cc: debian-release@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive - BUG REPORTS! Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 08:48:08 +0300 (EEST)
Hi!
Thank you for reporting these. We will look into them. In the mean time, can you see if any of these are fixed in 2.3.6?
Aki
On 07/07/2019 18:12 Arnold Opio Oree via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org
wrote:
Dovecot Team,
I'd like to report a number of bugs, that are to my view all critical.
System: Replicated on multiple Debian 10 (Buster) systems Dovecot Version(s): 2.3.4.1
doveadm-sync -1/general
If DIRNAMEs are not different between command line and mail_location doveadm sync will fail, saying that the source and destination directories are the same
The -n / -N flags do not work, and a sync will fail strangely if location is specified in the namespace definition
Adds mbox to path name under mailbox directory (where syncing from an mbox source)
Not having the mailboxes at source named the same as those at destination causes errors and partial sync
Not having the target mailboxes formatted to receive the sync (/<mailboxroot>/DIRNAME/) will cause sync errors.
doveadm-sync
- With large synchronizations UIDs are corrupted where multiple syncs are executed and the program can no longer synchronize
dovecot
- Panics and fails to expand ~ to user home: observed cases are where multiple namespaces are being used
Please let me know if you need me to elaborate or to provide any further information that you may need to replicate the bugs, or if I can help in any other way.
With regards to the last error that I requested help on i.e. \Noselect. This has been resolved more-or-less by the workarounds that I have implemented for the bugs reported above.
I have seen a number of threads whilst researching the \Noselect issue where people have been very confused. My finding was that \Noselect is a function of the IMAP specification server-side implementation RFC3501 ( https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3501#section-6.3.6 ). And for me the server was returning directories with \Noselect because the mailboxes were malformed on account of dovadm-sync errors. In order to fix this I formed a bash command to transverse the mailbox hierarchy and create the missing folders critical to the sdbox format, namely DIRNAME.
Kind regards,
Arnold Opio Oree Chief Executive Officer Parallax Digital Technologies
arnoldoree@parallaxdt.com
tel : +44 (0) 333 577 8587 fax : +44 (0) 20 8711 2477
Parallax Digital Technologies is a trading name of Parallax Global Limited. U.K. Co. No. 08836288
The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are to delete this e-mail immediately, disregard its contents and disclose them to no other persons.
-----Original Message----- From: Arnold Opio Oree via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org
Reply-To: arnoldoree@parallaxict.com , Arnold Opio Oree < arnold.oree@parallaxict.com
To: dovecot@dovecot.org
Cc: rs@sys4.de , aki.tuomi@open-xchange.com
Subject: Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive. Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2019 14:52:28 +0100
Hi all,
The guidance provided so far has been really helpful, and has helped a great deal to bringing down wasted energy on finding and executing a viable path. I am now at the final due action to complete our Dovecot application to our use-case, but am stuck on an issue that I cannot find any easily accessible documentation on.
Generally this is what has been done:
- Uploaded the enterprise data PST to the target groupware server.
- Prepared the server by changing the mailbox format to sdbox and the the Dovecot mail location to mail_location=/var/vmail/domain/user/mail/
- Converted the pst (on-server) to a recursive mbox hierarchy using readpst
- Executed doveadm-sync to convert mbox hierarchy data into sdbox and to copy it into the enterprise archive user's mailboxes 4.i. The biggest issue I faced at this point was doveadm-sync saying that the source and destination pointed to the same location, whereas they clearly did not. 4.i.a. I resolved this by removing the location= setting from the target namespace, and allowing it to default to mail_location = setting, and then using a completely different DIRNAME for the import doveadm-sync execution (which was the desired final DIRNAME); I then once the sync had been successful, changed the mail_location DIRNAME so that it pointed to the imported mail DIRNAME; and hence the imported email data was in the live mailboxes 4.i.b. doveadm-import failed several times, and was throwing quite inexplicable errors, so I moved onto doveadm-sync 4.i.c. I also had to make sure that the source and destination folder names matched, otherwise doveadm-syc threw very many errors and only partially imported the data 4.i.d. An issue which I decided just to live with is that an mbox DIRNAME was added to each mailbox as well as the DIRNAME specified so the path to mail is mbox/dbox-Mails. My thought is that with the data live on an IMAP server it will be possible to do a dysync through TCP to correct this problem.
The final issue that I am facing now, is that when readpst finds empty folders in the source pst hierarchy, it does not create an mbox file in the mbox hierarchy folder space. This causes doveadm-sync to not create the target data required for its mailbox structure i.e. DIRNAME sub-folder and index file (with our configuration). At this point either doveadm-sync or the dovecot process makes these empty folders not selectable.
The question now is how would I go about making all of these folders selectable, e.g. with an internal or external command line tool to change flags / create necessary sdbox mailbox constituent data?
Many thanks,
Arnold Opio Oree Chief Executive Officer Parallax Digital Technologies
arnoldoree@parallaxdt.com
tel : +44 (0) 333 577 8587 fax : +44 (0) 20 8711 2477
Parallax Digital Technologies is a trading name of Parallax Global Limited. U.K. Co. No. 08836288
The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are to delete this e-mail immediately, disregard its contents and disclose them to no other persons.
-----Original Message----- From: Arnold Opio Oree via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org
Reply-To: arnoldoree@parallaxict.com , Arnold Opio Oree < arnold.oree@parallaxict.com
To: Robert Schetterer < rs@sys4.de
, dovecot@dovecot.org
Subject: Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive. Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:05:35 +0100
Also you may run into client limits.... i ve seen this with outlook, apple mail, thunderbird via imap in the past
Thanks for this note Robert, it was not really an aspect that I was considering.
We are operating our groupware services user access through both Evolution Groupware and KDE Kontact / KMail on Debian Linux workstations. Hopefully if there is a client issue it should be local to only one groupware client.
I will be sure to study / investigate in this - client - area should any issues that are not traceable to the server-side arise.
Many thanks,
Arnold Opio Oree Chief Executive Officer Parallax Digital Technologies
arnoldoree@parallaxdt.com
tel : +44 (0) 333 577 8587 fax : +44 (0) 20 8711 2477
Parallax Digital Technologies is a trading name of Parallax Global Limited. U.K. Co. No. 08836288
The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are to delete this e-mail immediately, disregard its contents and disclose them to no other persons.
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Schetterer via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org
Reply-To: Robert Schetterer < rs@sys4.de
To: dovecot@dovecot.org
Subject: Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive. Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:53:49 +0200
Am 27.06.2019 um 07:35 schrieb Aki Tuomi via dovecot:
On 26.6.2019 22.12, Arnold Opio Oree via dovecot wrote:
Hello to you all,
I'd like to ask about my intended application of Dovecot to create a folder-hierarchy for storing our enterprise emails, which are treated as live data rather than archives for compliance or occasional / reactive retrieval.
The data is presently not that large (a few gigabytes), but it is expected to grow rapidly. Up to this stage the data has been contained in a Microsoft Exchange mailbox (2013), and then in an offline PST. The move to the offline PST was by necessity, as the large number of folders, and depth of hierarchy to my best understanding caused the exchange server / outlook / evolution mail clients to begin to malfunction. To cope with this the archive was broken up and the bulk stored in the offline PST and the most active components stored in online Exchange mailboxes.
I have some understanding of the fs mbox format, and also the mitigations to be made for certain characters / strings. My main concern is whether Dovecot is likely to be able to cope well with a large number of folders / depth of hierarcy.
I will really appreciate any help / advice you can give.
Best regards,
Arnold Opio Oree
Hi!
Dovecot 2.2.34/2.3 supports unlimited folder depth, the only limiting factor is that the total name may not exceed 4096 bytes. Also individual folder names may not exceed 255 bytes.
Prior to that the limit is 255 per folder up to 16 levels.
I can't recommend using 'mbox' storage format, please consider using maildir or sdbox instead.
Aki
Aki Tuomi
Your report is most appreciated, though it lacked quite a lot of detail that could've expedited the investigation why it happened. With the further information we can hopefully figure out why you are experiencing the problems you reported. There is no offense intended.
Aki
On 10.7.2019 14.01, Arnold Opio Oree via dovecot wrote:
Hello Timo,
I have scheduled some time to carry through the test requested by Aki.
I will add responding to you as part of that process.
Not sure if I have said or done anything to offend you, as your tone appears quite abrasive, even where you do not have an actual response to an observation.
It is my view that it is a privilege to provide an open source platform, and therefore a responsibility wherever feasible not only to properly maintain and support it, but also to properly document it; both of which from my experience and findings to date, Dovecot have failed to do.
Kind regards,
Arnold Opio Oree Chief Executive Officer Parallax Digital Technologies
arnoldoree@parallaxdt.com
tel : +44 (0) 333 577 8587 fax : +44 (0) 20 8711 2477
Parallax Digital Technologies is a trading name of Parallax Global Limited. U.K. Co. No. 08836288
The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are to delete this e-mail immediately, disregard its contents and disclose them to no other persons.
-----Original Message----- From: Timo Sirainen via dovecot dovecot@dovecot.org Reply-To: Timo Sirainen timo@sirainen.com To: Arnold Opio Oree arnold.oree@parallaxict.com Cc: Dovecot Mailing List dovecot@dovecot.org Subject: Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive - BUG REPORTS! Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 11:09:57 +0300
Dovecot Team,
I'd like to report a number of bugs, that are to my view all critical. It would help to get your doveconf -n, example command lines causing
On 7 Jul 2019, at 18.12, Arnold Opio Oree via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org> wrote: the problems and the error messages it outputs or what the wrong behavior looks like in filesystem. It's now rather difficult to guess what exactly you tried and what happened.
Also what kind of output does readpst make? I'm not sure why you're using DIRNAMEs here.
doveadm-sync -1/general
- If DIRNAMEs are not different between command line and mail_location doveadm sync will fail, saying that the source and destination directories are the same This sounds very strange. I'm not sure what exactly you did, and I couldn't reproduce with a small test.
- The -n / -N flags do not work, and a sync will fail strangely if location is specified in the namespace definition Again, sounds strange.
- Adds mbox to path name under mailbox directory (where syncing from an mbox source) Probably with different parameters you could avoid it.
Not having the mailboxes at source named the same as those at destination causes errors and partial sync
Not having the target mailboxes formatted to receive the sync (/<mailboxroot>/DIRNAME/) will cause sync errors. I don't understand these. Target mailboxes are supposed to be empty initially, and after the initial sync they should be in the expected format. Why would they be different?
doveadm-sync
- With large synchronizations UIDs are corrupted where multiple syncs are executed and the program can no longer synchronize What exactly is the error message?
dovecot
- Panics and fails to expand ~ to user home: observed cases are where multiple namespaces are being used Panic message and more details would also help.
With regards to the last error that I requested help on i.e. \Noselect. This has been resolved more-or-less by the workarounds that I have implemented for the bugs reported above.
I have seen a number of threads whilst researching the \Noselect issue where people have been very confused. My finding was that \Noselect is a function of the IMAP specification server-side implementation RFC3501 ( https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3501#section-6.3.6). And for me the server was returning directories with \Noselect because the mailboxes were malformed on account of dovadm-sync errors. In order to fix this I formed a bash command to transverse the mailbox hierarchy and create the missing folders critical to the sdbox format, namely DIRNAME. Nowadays we have also an option to disable creation of \Noselect folders, because they confuse people. Using mail_location = ...:NO- NOSELECT - It won't affect existing folders immediately though.
-----Original Message----- From: Arnold Opio Oree arnoldoree@parallaxict.com Reply-To: arnoldoree@parallaxict.com To: Aki Tuomi aki.tuomi@open-xchange.com, Dovecot Mailing List < dovecot@dovecot.org> Cc: debian-release@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive - BUG REPORTS! Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 13:21:51 +0100
Hello Aki,
Thanks for looking into these.
I will as requested attempt the relevant procedures under Dovecot 2.3.6.
To make the test fair, I will need to fork the relevant production groupware stack (which is now stable and in operation, with our enterprise (email) data successfully migrated from Microsoft Exchange) to a new staging server; given that the current staging server is now of a materially different configuration to the production server (where the most controlled observations of these bugs were made).
Kindly give me some time, as I have an urgent internal openstack deployment project to kick-off, that has been delayed by an overrun of this internal groupware stack deployment project.
Best regards,
Arnold Opio Oree Chief Executive Officer Parallax Digital Technologies
arnoldoree@parallaxdt.com
tel : +44 (0) 333 577 8587 fax : +44 (0) 20 8711 2477
Parallax Digital Technologies is a trading name of Parallax Global Limited. U.K. Co. No. 08836288
The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are to delete this e-mail immediately, disregard its contents and disclose them to no other persons.
-----Original Message----- From: Aki Tuomi via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org Reply-To: Aki Tuomi < aki.tuomi@open-xchange.com To: arnoldoree@parallaxict.com , Arnold Opio Oree < arnold.oree@parallaxict.com
, Arnold Opio Oree via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org Cc: debian-release@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive - BUG REPORTS! Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 08:48:08 +0300 (EEST)
Hi!
Thank you for reporting these. We will look into them. In the mean time, can you see if any of these are fixed in 2.3.6?
Aki
On 07/07/2019 18:12 Arnold Opio Oree via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org
wrote:
Dovecot Team,
I'd like to report a number of bugs, that are to my view all critical.
System: Replicated on multiple Debian 10 (Buster) systems Dovecot Version(s): 2.3.4.1
doveadm-sync -1/general
If DIRNAMEs are not different between command line and mail_location doveadm sync will fail, saying that the source and destination directories are the same
The -n / -N flags do not work, and a sync will fail strangely if location is specified in the namespace definition
Adds mbox to path name under mailbox directory (where syncing from an mbox source)
Not having the mailboxes at source named the same as those at destination causes errors and partial sync
Not having the target mailboxes formatted to receive the sync (/<mailboxroot>/DIRNAME/) will cause sync errors.
doveadm-sync
- With large synchronizations UIDs are corrupted where multiple syncs are executed and the program can no longer synchronize
dovecot
- Panics and fails to expand ~ to user home: observed cases are where multiple namespaces are being used
Please let me know if you need me to elaborate or to provide any further information that you may need to replicate the bugs, or if I can help in any other way.
With regards to the last error that I requested help on i.e. \Noselect. This has been resolved more-or-less by the workarounds that I have implemented for the bugs reported above.
I have seen a number of threads whilst researching the \Noselect issue where people have been very confused. My finding was that \Noselect is a function of the IMAP specification server-side implementation RFC3501 ( https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3501#section-6.3.6 ). And for me the server was returning directories with \Noselect because the mailboxes were malformed on account of dovadm-sync errors. In order to fix this I formed a bash command to transverse the mailbox hierarchy and create the missing folders critical to the sdbox format, namely DIRNAME.
Kind regards,
Arnold Opio Oree Chief Executive Officer Parallax Digital Technologies
arnoldoree@parallaxdt.com
tel : +44 (0) 333 577 8587 fax : +44 (0) 20 8711 2477
Parallax Digital Technologies is a trading name of Parallax Global Limited. U.K. Co. No. 08836288
The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are to delete this e-mail immediately, disregard its contents and disclose them to no other persons.
-----Original Message----- From: Arnold Opio Oree via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org Reply-To: arnoldoree@parallaxict.com , Arnold Opio Oree < arnold.oree@parallaxict.com To: dovecot@dovecot.org
Cc: rs@sys4.de , aki.tuomi@open-xchange.com
Subject: Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive. Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2019 14:52:28 +0100
Hi all,
The guidance provided so far has been really helpful, and has helped a great deal to bringing down wasted energy on finding and executing a viable path. I am now at the final due action to complete our Dovecot application to our use-case, but am stuck on an issue that I cannot find any easily accessible documentation on.
Generally this is what has been done:
- Uploaded the enterprise data PST to the target groupware server.
- Prepared the server by changing the mailbox format to sdbox and the the Dovecot mail location to mail_location=/var/vmail/domain/user/mail/
- Converted the pst (on-server) to a recursive mbox hierarchy using readpst
- Executed doveadm-sync to convert mbox hierarchy data into sdbox and to copy it into the enterprise archive user's mailboxes 4.i. The biggest issue I faced at this point was doveadm-sync saying that the source and destination pointed to the same location, whereas they clearly did not. 4.i.a. I resolved this by removing the location= setting from the target namespace, and allowing it to default to mail_location = setting, and then using a completely different DIRNAME for the import doveadm-sync execution (which was the desired final DIRNAME); I then once the sync had been successful, changed the mail_location DIRNAME so that it pointed to the imported mail DIRNAME; and hence the imported email data was in the live mailboxes 4.i.b. doveadm-import failed several times, and was throwing quite inexplicable errors, so I moved onto doveadm-sync 4.i.c. I also had to make sure that the source and destination folder names matched, otherwise doveadm-syc threw very many errors and only partially imported the data 4.i.d. An issue which I decided just to live with is that an mbox DIRNAME was added to each mailbox as well as the DIRNAME specified so the path to mail is mbox/dbox-Mails. My thought is that with the data live on an IMAP server it will be possible to do a dysync through TCP to correct this problem.
The final issue that I am facing now, is that when readpst finds empty folders in the source pst hierarchy, it does not create an mbox file in the mbox hierarchy folder space. This causes doveadm-sync to not create the target data required for its mailbox structure i.e. DIRNAME sub-folder and index file (with our configuration). At this point either doveadm-sync or the dovecot process makes these empty folders not selectable.
The question now is how would I go about making all of these folders selectable, e.g. with an internal or external command line tool to change flags / create necessary sdbox mailbox constituent data?
Many thanks,
Arnold Opio Oree Chief Executive Officer Parallax Digital Technologies
arnoldoree@parallaxdt.com
tel : +44 (0) 333 577 8587 fax : +44 (0) 20 8711 2477
Parallax Digital Technologies is a trading name of Parallax Global Limited. U.K. Co. No. 08836288
The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are to delete this e-mail immediately, disregard its contents and disclose them to no other persons.
-----Original Message----- From: Arnold Opio Oree via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org Reply-To: arnoldoree@parallaxict.com , Arnold Opio Oree < arnold.oree@parallaxict.com To: Robert Schetterer < rs@sys4.de
, dovecot@dovecot.org
Subject: Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive. Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:05:35 +0100
Also you may run into client limits.... i ve seen this with outlook, apple mail, thunderbird via imap in the past Thanks for this note Robert, it was not really an aspect that I was considering.
We are operating our groupware services user access through both Evolution Groupware and KDE Kontact / KMail on Debian Linux workstations. Hopefully if there is a client issue it should be local to only one groupware client.
I will be sure to study / investigate in this - client - area should any issues that are not traceable to the server-side arise.
Many thanks,
Arnold Opio Oree Chief Executive Officer Parallax Digital Technologies
arnoldoree@parallaxdt.com
tel : +44 (0) 333 577 8587 fax : +44 (0) 20 8711 2477
Parallax Digital Technologies is a trading name of Parallax Global Limited. U.K. Co. No. 08836288
The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are to delete this e-mail immediately, disregard its contents and disclose them to no other persons.
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Schetterer via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org
Reply-To: Robert Schetterer < rs@sys4.de
To: dovecot@dovecot.org
Subject: Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive. Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:53:49 +0200
Am 27.06.2019 um 07:35 schrieb Aki Tuomi via dovecot:
On 26.6.2019 22.12, Arnold Opio Oree via dovecot wrote:
Hello to you all,
I'd like to ask about my intended application of Dovecot to create a folder-hierarchy for storing our enterprise emails, which are treated as live data rather than archives for compliance or occasional / reactive retrieval.
The data is presently not that large (a few gigabytes), but it is expected to grow rapidly. Up to this stage the data has been contained in a Microsoft Exchange mailbox (2013), and then in an offline PST. The move to the offline PST was by necessity, as the large number of folders, and depth of hierarchy to my best understanding caused the exchange server / outlook / evolution mail clients to begin to malfunction. To cope with this the archive was broken up and the bulk stored in the offline PST and the most active components stored in online Exchange mailboxes.
I have some understanding of the fs mbox format, and also the mitigations to be made for certain characters / strings. My main concern is whether Dovecot is likely to be able to cope well with a large number of folders / depth of hierarcy.
I will really appreciate any help / advice you can give.
Best regards,
Arnold Opio Oree
Hi!
Dovecot 2.2.34/2.3 supports unlimited folder depth, the only limiting factor is that the total name may not exceed 4096 bytes. Also individual folder names may not exceed 255 bytes.
Prior to that the limit is 255 per folder up to 16 levels.
I can't recommend using 'mbox' storage format, please consider using maildir or sdbox instead.
Aki
Aki Tuomi
Hello Aki,
Thank you for your assurance.
It is really important to me to see that things are done well in the open source community. As there are many vested interests that would seek to have it otherwise.
And there are certain parts of the world, such as the place of my birth, Africa. Where Open Source really does hold the key to freedom from the worst forms of oppression and suffering known to man.
Sorry Adam, this will be my last cc on this topic. Just thought it was important to get this point to the Debian Release Management Team.
Warmest regards,
Arnold Opio Oree Chief Executive Officer Parallax Digital Technologies
arnoldoree@parallaxdt.com
tel : +44 (0) 333 577 8587 fax : +44 (0) 20 8711 2477
Parallax Digital Technologies is a trading name of Parallax Global Limited. U.K. Co. No. 08836288
The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are to delete this e-mail immediately, disregard its contents and disclose them to no other persons.
Understood Adam,
My thinking is that this is a package released with Debian 10. And so has everything to do with the release.
I am new to the community, and have not yet studied the guidelines.
Regards,
Arnold Opio Oree Chief Executive Officer Parallax Digital Technologies
arnoldoree@parallaxdt.com
tel : +44 (0) 333 577 8587 fax : +44 (0) 20 8711 2477
Parallax Digital Technologies is a trading name of Parallax Global Limited. U.K. Co. No. 08836288
The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are to delete this e-mail immediately, disregard its contents and disclose them to no other persons.
-----Original Message----- From: Adam D. Barratt adam@adam-barratt.org.uk To: arnoldoree@parallaxict.com Cc: timo@sirainen.com, Dovecot Mailing List dovecot@dovecot.org, debian-release@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive - BUG REPORTS! Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 12:24:44 +0100
On 2019-07-10 12:01, Arnold Opio Oree wrote:
Please stop CCing this thread to the Debian Release Management mailing list.
If there are issues with the Dovecot packages in Debian then they should be reported as bugs against the packages.
Thanks.
Adam (Debian Release Team member)
-----Original Message----- From: Aki Tuomi aki.tuomi@open-xchange.com To: arnoldoree@parallaxict.com, timo@sirainen.com, Dovecot Mailing List dovecot@dovecot.org Cc: debian-release@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive - BUG REPORTS! Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 14:13:53 +0300
Your report is most appreciated, though it lacked quite a lot of detail that could've expedited the investigation why it happened. With the further information we can hopefully figure out why you are experiencing the problems you reported. There is no offense intended.
Aki
On 10.7.2019 14.01, Arnold Opio Oree via dovecot wrote:
Hello Timo,
I have scheduled some time to carry through the test requested by Aki.
I will add responding to you as part of that process.
Not sure if I have said or done anything to offend you, as your tone appears quite abrasive, even where you do not have an actual response to an observation.
It is my view that it is a privilege to provide an open source platform, and therefore a responsibility wherever feasible not only to properly maintain and support it, but also to properly document it; both of which from my experience and findings to date, Dovecot have failed to do.
Kind regards,
Arnold Opio Oree Chief Executive Officer Parallax Digital Technologies
arnoldoree@parallaxdt.com
tel : +44 (0) 333 577 8587 fax : +44 (0) 20 8711 2477
Parallax Digital Technologies is a trading name of Parallax Global Limited. U.K. Co. No. 08836288
The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are to delete this e-mail immediately, disregard its contents and disclose them to no other persons.
-----Original Message----- From: Timo Sirainen via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org
Reply-To: Timo Sirainen < timo@sirainen.com
To: Arnold Opio Oree < arnold.oree@parallaxict.com
Cc: Dovecot Mailing List < dovecot@dovecot.org
Subject: Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive - BUG REPORTS! Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 11:09:57 +0300
On 7 Jul 2019, at 18.12, Arnold Opio Oree via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org
wrote:
Dovecot Team,
I'd like to report a number of bugs, that are to my view all critical.
It would help to get your doveconf -n, example command lines causing the problems and the error messages it outputs or what the wrong behavior looks like in filesystem. It's now rather difficult to guess what exactly you tried and what happened.
Also what kind of output does readpst make? I'm not sure why you're using DIRNAMEs here.
doveadm-sync -1/general
- If DIRNAMEs are not different between command line and mail_location doveadm sync will fail, saying that the source and destination directories are the same
This sounds very strange. I'm not sure what exactly you did, and I couldn't reproduce with a small test.
- The -n / -N flags do not work, and a sync will fail strangely if location is specified in the namespace definition
Again, sounds strange.
- Adds mbox to path name under mailbox directory (where syncing
from
an mbox source)
Probably with different parameters you could avoid it.
Not having the mailboxes at source named the same as those at destination causes errors and partial sync
Not having the target mailboxes formatted to receive the sync (/<mailboxroot>/DIRNAME/) will cause sync errors.
I don't understand these. Target mailboxes are supposed to be empty initially, and after the initial sync they should be in the expected format. Why would they be different?
doveadm-sync
- With large synchronizations UIDs are corrupted where multiple syncs are executed and the program can no longer synchronize
What exactly is the error message?
dovecot
- Panics and fails to expand ~ to user home: observed cases are where multiple namespaces are being used
Panic message and more details would also help.
With regards to the last error that I requested help on i.e. \Noselect. This has been resolved more-or-less by the workarounds that I have implemented for the bugs reported above.
I have seen a number of threads whilst researching the \Noselect issue where people have been very confused. My finding was that \Noselect is a function of the IMAP specification server-side implementation RFC3501 ( https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3501#section-6.3.6 ). And for me the server was returning directories with \Noselect because the
mailboxes
were malformed on account of dovadm-sync errors. In order to fix
this
I formed a bash command to transverse the mailbox hierarchy and create the missing folders critical to the sdbox format, namely DIRNAME.
Nowadays we have also an option to disable creation of \Noselect folders, because they confuse people. Using mail_location = ...:NO- NOSELECT - It won't affect existing folders immediately though.
-----Original Message----- From: Arnold Opio Oree < arnoldoree@parallaxict.com
Reply-To: arnoldoree@parallaxict.com
To: Aki Tuomi < aki.tuomi@open-xchange.com
, Dovecot Mailing List < dovecot@dovecot.org
Cc: debian-release@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive - BUG REPORTS! Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 13:21:51 +0100
Hello Aki,
Thanks for looking into these.
I will as requested attempt the relevant procedures under Dovecot 2.3.6.
To make the test fair, I will need to fork the relevant production groupware stack (which is now stable and in operation, with our enterprise (email) data successfully migrated from Microsoft Exchange) to a new staging server; given that the current staging server is now of a materially different configuration to the production server (where the most controlled observations of these bugs were made).
Kindly give me some time, as I have an urgent internal openstack deployment project to kick-off, that has been delayed by an overrun of this internal groupware stack deployment project.
Best regards,
Arnold Opio Oree Chief Executive Officer Parallax Digital Technologies
arnoldoree@parallaxdt.com
tel : +44 (0) 333 577 8587 fax : +44 (0) 20 8711 2477
Parallax Digital Technologies is a trading name of Parallax Global Limited. U.K. Co. No. 08836288
The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are to delete this e-mail immediately, disregard its contents and disclose them to no other persons.
-----Original Message----- From: Aki Tuomi via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org
Reply-To: Aki Tuomi < aki.tuomi@open-xchange.com
To: arnoldoree@parallaxict.com
, Arnold Opio Oree < arnold.oree@parallaxict.com
, Arnold Opio Oree via dovecot <
dovecot@dovecot.org
Cc: debian-release@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive - BUG REPORTS! Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 08:48:08 +0300 (EEST)
Hi!
Thank you for reporting these. We will look into them. In the mean time, can you see if any of these are fixed in 2.3.6?
Aki
On 07/07/2019 18:12 Arnold Opio Oree via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org
wrote:
Dovecot Team,
I'd like to report a number of bugs, that are to my view all critical.
System: Replicated on multiple Debian 10 (Buster) systems Dovecot Version(s): 2.3.4.1
doveadm-sync -1/general
If DIRNAMEs are not different between command line and mail_location doveadm sync will fail, saying that the source and destination directories are the same
The -n / -N flags do not work, and a sync will fail strangely if location is specified in the namespace definition
Adds mbox to path name under mailbox directory (where syncing from an mbox source)
Not having the mailboxes at source named the same as those at destination causes errors and partial sync
Not having the target mailboxes formatted to receive the sync (/<mailboxroot>/DIRNAME/) will cause sync errors.
doveadm-sync
- With large synchronizations UIDs are corrupted where multiple syncs are executed and the program can no longer synchronize
dovecot
- Panics and fails to expand ~ to user home: observed cases are where multiple namespaces are being used
Please let me know if you need me to elaborate or to provide any further information that you may need to replicate the bugs, or if I can help in any other way.
With regards to the last error that I requested help on i.e. \Noselect. This has been resolved more-or-less by the workarounds that I have implemented for the bugs reported above.
I have seen a number of threads whilst researching the \Noselect issue where people have been very confused. My finding was that \Noselect is a function of the IMAP specification server-side implementation RFC3501 ( https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3501#section-6.3.6
). And for me the server was returning directories with \Noselect because the mailboxes were malformed on account of dovadm-sync errors. In order to fix this I formed a bash command to transverse the mailbox hierarchy and create the missing folders critical to the sdbox format, namely DIRNAME.
Kind regards,
Arnold Opio Oree Chief Executive Officer Parallax Digital Technologies
arnoldoree@parallaxdt.com
tel : +44 (0) 333 577 8587 fax : +44 (0) 20 8711 2477
Parallax Digital Technologies is a trading name of Parallax Global Limited. U.K. Co. No. 08836288
The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are to delete this e-mail immediately, disregard its contents and disclose them to no other persons.
-----Original Message----- From: Arnold Opio Oree via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org
Reply-To: arnoldoree@parallaxict.com
, Arnold Opio Oree < arnold.oree@parallaxict.com
To: dovecot@dovecot.org
Cc: rs@sys4.de
, aki.tuomi@open-xchange.com
Subject: Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive. Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2019 14:52:28 +0100
Hi all,
The guidance provided so far has been really helpful, and has helped a great deal to bringing down wasted energy on finding and executing a viable path. I am now at the final due action to complete our Dovecot application to our use-case, but am stuck on an issue that I cannot find any easily accessible documentation on.
Generally this is what has been done:
- Uploaded the enterprise data PST to the target groupware server.
- Prepared the server by changing the mailbox format to sdbox and the the Dovecot mail location to mail_location=/var/vmail/domain/user/mail/
- Converted the pst (on-server) to a recursive mbox hierarchy using readpst
- Executed doveadm-sync to convert mbox hierarchy data into sdbox and to copy it into the enterprise archive user's mailboxes 4.i. The biggest issue I faced at this point was doveadm-sync saying that the source and destination pointed to the same location, whereas they clearly did not. 4.i.a. I resolved this by removing the location= setting from the target namespace, and allowing it to default to mail_location = setting, and then using a completely different DIRNAME for the import doveadm-sync execution (which was the desired final DIRNAME); I then once the sync had been successful, changed the mail_location DIRNAME so that it pointed to the imported mail DIRNAME; and hence the imported email data was in the live mailboxes 4.i.b. doveadm-import failed several times, and was throwing quite inexplicable errors, so I moved onto doveadm-sync 4.i.c. I also had to make sure that the source and destination folder names matched, otherwise doveadm-syc threw very many errors and only partially imported the data 4.i.d. An issue which I decided just to live with is that an mbox DIRNAME was added to each mailbox as well as the DIRNAME specified so the path to mail is mbox/dbox-Mails. My thought is that with the data live on an IMAP server it will be possible to do a dysync through TCP to correct this problem.
The final issue that I am facing now, is that when readpst finds empty folders in the source pst hierarchy, it does not create an mbox file in the mbox hierarchy folder space. This causes doveadm-sync to not create the target data required for its mailbox structure i.e. DIRNAME sub-folder and index file (with our configuration). At this point either doveadm-sync or the dovecot process makes these empty folders not selectable.
The question now is how would I go about making all of these folders selectable, e.g. with an internal or external command line tool to change flags / create necessary sdbox mailbox constituent data?
Many thanks,
Arnold Opio Oree Chief Executive Officer Parallax Digital Technologies
arnoldoree@parallaxdt.com
tel : +44 (0) 333 577 8587 fax : +44 (0) 20 8711 2477
Parallax Digital Technologies is a trading name of Parallax Global Limited. U.K. Co. No. 08836288
The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are to delete this e-mail immediately, disregard its contents and disclose them to no other persons.
-----Original Message----- From: Arnold Opio Oree via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org
Reply-To: arnoldoree@parallaxict.com
, Arnold Opio Oree < arnold.oree@parallaxict.com
To: Robert Schetterer < rs@sys4.de
,
dovecot@dovecot.org
Subject: Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive. Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:05:35 +0100
Also you may run into client limits.... i ve seen this with outlook, apple mail, thunderbird via imap in the past
Thanks for this note Robert, it was not really an aspect that I was considering.
We are operating our groupware services user access through both Evolution Groupware and KDE Kontact / KMail on Debian Linux workstations. Hopefully if there is a client issue it should be local to only one groupware client.
I will be sure to study / investigate in this - client - area should any issues that are not traceable to the server-side arise.
Many thanks,
Arnold Opio Oree Chief Executive Officer Parallax Digital Technologies
arnoldoree@parallaxdt.com
tel : +44 (0) 333 577 8587 fax : +44 (0) 20 8711 2477
Parallax Digital Technologies is a trading name of Parallax Global Limited. U.K. Co. No. 08836288
The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are to delete this e-mail immediately, disregard its contents and disclose them to no other persons.
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Schetterer via dovecot < dovecot@dovecot.org
Reply-To: Robert Schetterer < rs@sys4.de
To: dovecot@dovecot.org
Subject: Re: Applying Dovecot for a large / deep folder-hierarchy archive. Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:53:49 +0200
Am 27.06.2019 um 07:35 schrieb Aki Tuomi via dovecot:
On 26.6.2019 22.12, Arnold Opio Oree via dovecot wrote:
Hello to you all,
I'd like to ask about my intended application of Dovecot to create a folder-hierarchy for storing our enterprise emails, which are treated as live data rather than archives for compliance or occasional / reactive retrieval.
The data is presently not that large (a few gigabytes), but it is expected to grow rapidly. Up to this stage the data has been contained in a Microsoft Exchange mailbox (2013), and then in an offline PST. The move to the offline PST was by necessity, as the large number of folders, and depth of hierarchy to my best understanding caused the exchange server / outlook / evolution mail clients to begin to malfunction. To cope with this the archive was broken up and the bulk stored in the offline PST and the most active components stored in online Exchange mailboxes.
I have some understanding of the fs mbox format, and also the mitigations to be made for certain characters / strings. My main concern is whether Dovecot is likely to be able to cope well with a large number of folders / depth of hierarcy.
I will really appreciate any help / advice you can give.
Best regards,
Arnold Opio Oree
Hi!
Dovecot 2.2.34/2.3 supports unlimited folder depth, the only limiting factor is that the total name may not exceed 4096 bytes. Also individual folder names may not exceed 255 bytes.
Prior to that the limit is 255 per folder up to 16 levels.
I can't recommend using 'mbox' storage format, please consider using maildir or sdbox instead.
Aki
Aki Tuomi
participants (2)
-
Aki Tuomi
-
Arnold Opio Oree