[Dovecot] Any client out there taking advantage of Dovecot's virtual mailboxes?
I wish to know if someone knows an IMAP client (desktop or webmail) using Dovecot's virtual mailboxes as server-side search folders.
Thanks.
On 3/3/2014 8:43 PM, Aleve Sicofante asicofante@gmail.com wrote:
I wish to know if someone knows an IMAP client (desktop or webmail) using Dovecot's virtual mailboxes as server-side search folders.
I'm also interested in this. What I'd really like to see is support in Thunderbird for this.
Thunderbird already has support for virtual folders, but I'd love to see this support extended to server-side virtual folders - ie, so Thunderbird could create and manage them directly on the server.
Could you elaborate? I'm using virtual mailboxes, but I'm not sure if that's what you're talking about. If you mean no system accounts, that's my setup.
On 4 March 2014 19:21, Charles Marcus CMarcus@media-brokers.com wrote:
On 3/3/2014 8:43 PM, Aleve Sicofante asicofante@gmail.com wrote:
I wish to know if someone knows an IMAP client (desktop or webmail) using Dovecot's virtual mailboxes as server-side search folders.
I'm also interested in this. What I'd really like to see is support in Thunderbird for this.
Thunderbird already has support for virtual folders, but I'd love to see this support extended to server-side virtual folders - ie, so Thunderbird could create and manage them directly on the server.
I'm talking about this: http://wiki2.dovecot.org/Plugins/Virtual
2014-03-04 22:00 GMT+01:00 Muzaffer Tolga Ozses tolga@ozses.net:
Could you elaborate? I'm using virtual mailboxes, but I'm not sure if that's what you're talking about. If you mean no system accounts, that's my setup.
On 4 March 2014 19:21, Charles Marcus CMarcus@media-brokers.com wrote:
On 3/3/2014 8:43 PM, Aleve Sicofante asicofante@gmail.com wrote:
I wish to know if someone knows an IMAP client (desktop or webmail) using Dovecot's virtual mailboxes as server-side search folders.
I'm also interested in this. What I'd really like to see is support in Thunderbird for this.
Thunderbird already has support for virtual folders, but I'd love to see this support extended to server-side virtual folders - ie, so Thunderbird could create and manage them directly on the server.
Quoting Aleve Sicofante asicofante@gmail.com:
I'm talking about this: http://wiki2.dovecot.org/Plugins/Virtual
Every client can take advantage of them. From a client's perspective,
they are just another IMAP mailbox.
michael
2014-03-05 6:59 GMT+01:00 Michael M Slusarz slusarz@curecanti.org:
Quoting Aleve Sicofante asicofante@gmail.com:
I'm talking about this: http://wiki2.dovecot.org/Plugins/Virtual
Every client can take advantage of them. From a client's perspective, they are just another IMAP mailbox.
Of course any client would be able to "see" them once created somewhere else. The point is obviously finding a client capable of creating such virtual mailboxes from searches, labels, etc.
Quoting Aleve Sicofante asicofante@gmail.com:
2014-03-05 6:59 GMT+01:00 Michael M Slusarz slusarz@curecanti.org:
Quoting Aleve Sicofante asicofante@gmail.com:
I'm talking about this: http://wiki2.dovecot.org/Plugins/Virtual
Every client can take advantage of them. From a client's perspective, they are just another IMAP mailbox.
Of course any client would be able to "see" them once created somewhere else. The point is obviously finding a client capable of creating such virtual mailboxes from searches, labels, etc.
You are misinterpreting what the Dovecot virtual plugin does. It
allows an admin to create virtual mailboxes. It does not provide a
client with any ability to alter edit/those mailboxes.
We've had virtual mailboxes in our client for 10+ years (i.e. client
displays a "fake" mailbox that is generated via server-side search
actions). That's the only 100% reliable way to implement this across
IMAP servers.
RFC 5466 can be used for this on the IMAP side, but there's not really
any server-side support for it so it is not a viable option at this
time.
michael
2014-03-05 19:07 GMT+01:00 Michael M Slusarz slusarz@curecanti.org:
Quoting Aleve Sicofante asicofante@gmail.com:
2014-03-05 6:59 GMT+01:00 Michael M Slusarz slusarz@curecanti.org:
Quoting Aleve Sicofante asicofante@gmail.com:
I'm talking about this: http://wiki2.dovecot.org/Plugins/Virtual
Every client can take advantage of them. From a client's perspective, they are just another IMAP mailbox.
Of course any client would be able to "see" them once created somewhere else. The point is obviously finding a client capable of creating such virtual mailboxes from searches, labels, etc.
You are misinterpreting what the Dovecot virtual plugin does. It allows an admin to create virtual mailboxes. It does not provide a client with any ability to alter edit/those mailboxes.
We've had virtual mailboxes in our client for 10+ years (i.e. client displays a "fake" mailbox that is generated via server-side search actions). That's the only 100% reliable way to implement this across IMAP servers.
RFC 5466 can be used for this on the IMAP side, but there's not really any server-side support for it so it is not a viable option at this time.
I see. Well, that sounds pretty useless to me. I urge whoever designed the plugin to make it client-oriented. It will be much more useful.
On 3/4/2014 4:00 PM, Muzaffer Tolga Ozses tolga@ozses.net wrote:
On 4 March 2014 19:21, Charles Marcus CMarcus@media-brokers.com wrote:
On 3/3/2014 8:43 PM, Aleve Sicofante asicofante@gmail.com wrote:
I wish to know if someone knows an IMAP client (desktop or webmail) using Dovecot's virtual mailboxes as server-side search folders.
I'm also interested in this. What I'd really like to see is support in Thunderbird for this.
Thunderbird already has support for virtual folders, but I'd love to see this support extended to server-side virtual folders - ie, so Thunderbird could create and manage them directly on the server.
Could you elaborate? I'm using virtual mailboxes, but I'm not sure if that's what you're talking about. If you mean no system accounts, that's my setup.
Please don't top-post...
Yes, dovecot's 'virtual mailboxes' is essentially the same thing conceptually as Thunderbird's 'Virtual Folders', but dovecot does it server-side (and all clients automatically see the virtual mailboxes as if they were real folders).
Thunderbird does it client side, so it is *much* less efficient, and it is local only to that instance of Thunderbird (so, no other clients see those virtual folders).
Hmmm... I could have sworn I opened a bug about this way back when dovecot added support for this, but I guess I didn't...
So, I just did... feel free to go vote for it:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=979846
--
Best regards,
Charles
2014-03-05 13:07 GMT+01:00 Charles Marcus CMarcus@media-brokers.com:
On 3/4/2014 4:00 PM, Muzaffer Tolga Ozses tolga@ozses.net wrote:
On 4 March 2014 19:21, Charles Marcus CMarcus@media-brokers.com wrote:
On 3/3/2014 8:43 PM, Aleve Sicofante asicofante@gmail.com wrote:
I wish to know if someone knows an IMAP client (desktop or webmail) using Dovecot's virtual mailboxes as server-side search folders.
I'm also interested in this. What I'd really like to see is support in
Thunderbird for this.
Thunderbird already has support for virtual folders, but I'd love to see this support extended to server-side virtual folders - ie, so Thunderbird could create and manage them directly on the server.
Could you elaborate? I'm using virtual mailboxes, but I'm not sure if
that's what you're talking about. If you mean no system accounts, that's my setup.
Please don't top-post...
Yes, dovecot's 'virtual mailboxes' is essentially the same thing conceptually as Thunderbird's 'Virtual Folders', but dovecot does it server-side (and all clients automatically see the virtual mailboxes as if they were real folders).
Thunderbird does it client side, so it is *much* less efficient, and it is local only to that instance of Thunderbird (so, no other clients see those virtual folders).
Hmmm... I could have sworn I opened a bug about this way back when dovecot added support for this, but I guess I didn't...
So, I just did... feel free to go vote for it:
OK. Subscribed and voted, but the bug should point to "where to start" in Dovecot's documentation. Which point would that be? Is it documented how to remotely manage virtual mailboxes? According to Michael Slusarzhttps://plus.google.com/u/0/109836422377797506418?prsrc=4this is not possible and we're misinterpreting the use of virtual mailboxes by Dovecot...
Who's right?
On 3/14/2014 9:43 PM, Aleve Sicofante asicofante@gmail.com wrote:
2014-03-05 13:07 GMT+01:00 Charles MarcusCMarcus@media-brokers.com:
Yes, dovecot's 'virtual mailboxes' is essentially the same thing conceptually as Thunderbird's 'Virtual Folders', but dovecot does it server-side (and all clients automatically see the virtual mailboxes as if they were real folders).
Thunderbird does it client side, so it is *much* less efficient, and it is local only to that instance of Thunderbird (so, no other clients see those virtual folders).
Hmmm... I could have sworn I opened a bug about this way back when dovecot added support for this, but I guess I didn't...
So, I just did... feel free to go vote for it:
OK. Subscribed and voted, but the bug should point to "where to start" in Dovecot's documentation.
Ok, but... where would that be? I don't see a 'Where to start' to point to...
And, well, if subscribed and voted, you could easily add that yourself, no? ;)
Which point would that be? Is it documented how to remotely manage virtual mailboxes? According to Michael Slusarzhttps://plus.google.com/u/0/109836422377797506418?prsrc=4this is not possible and we're misinterpreting the use of virtual mailboxes by Dovecot...
Who's right?
Since I am not a google+ subscriber (and have no desire to become one), and cannot read whatever you're talking about, I have no clue.
It's never a good idea to link to protected content for things like this.
--
Best regards,
Charles
OK. Subscribed and voted, but the bug should point to "where to start" in
Dovecot's documentation.
Ok, but... where would that be? I don't see a 'Where to start' to point to...
And, well, if subscribed and voted, you could easily add that yourself, no? ;)
I haven't got a clue, that's why I was asking and not directly you, just everyone.
Since I am not a google+ subscriber (and have no desire to become one), and cannot read whatever you're talking about, I have no clue.
It's never a good idea to link to protected content for things like this.
I just copied and pasted the name of the guy and it came with the link. Sorry.
You can read what he says in this very thread. I'm not a google+ user either. He just says Dovecot's virtual mailboxes are intended for admins only, not for clients. It doesn't sound logical, but that's what he says.
Quoting Aleve Sicofante asicofante@gmail.com:
OK. Subscribed and voted, but the bug should point to "where to start" in
Dovecot's documentation.
Ok, but... where would that be? I don't see a 'Where to start' to point to...
And, well, if subscribed and voted, you could easily add that yourself, no? ;)
This isn't going to happen in thunderbird, outside of someone writing
code for thunderbird to login to the dovecot server (via SSH with an
admin/root password), find the dovecot config files on the server
(which will vary based on each server), edit the dovecot config
non-interactively, and then be be able to restart the dovecot server
to make the changes stick (which, again, will vary based on each
server). I would guess there is about a none percent chance of that
occurring.
You can read what he says in this very thread. I'm not a google+ user either. He just says Dovecot's virtual mailboxes are intended for admins only, not for clients. It doesn't sound logical, but that's what he says.
This is exactly what I said previously in this thread. And it is a
100% accurate statement.
The ONLY way this can be implemented client-side is if there are some
sort of standardized IMAP commands that the client can use to alter
the mailboxes. There isn't.
In general, IMAP 4 doesn't allow a command to work on multiple
mailboxes at a single time (outside of MULTISEARCH... but that's one
reason why MULTISEARCH is experimental and really hasn't provoked much
interest). That's why virtual mailboxes don't conceptually work very
well as a server-level entity and instead make much more sense as a
client-level feature.
michael
2014-03-17 21:14 GMT+01:00 Michael M Slusarz slusarz@curecanti.org:
Quoting Aleve Sicofante asicofante@gmail.com:
OK. Subscribed and voted, but the bug should point to "where to start" in
Dovecot's documentation.
Ok, but... where would that be? I don't see a 'Where to start' to point to...
And, well, if subscribed and voted, you could easily add that yourself, no? ;)
This isn't going to happen in thunderbird, outside of someone writing code for thunderbird to login to the dovecot server (via SSH with an admin/root password), find the dovecot config files on the server (which will vary based on each server), edit the dovecot config non-interactively, and then be be able to restart the dovecot server to make the changes stick (which, again, will vary based on each server). I would guess there is about a none percent chance of that occurring.
You can read what he says in this very thread. I'm not a google+ user
either. He just says Dovecot's virtual mailboxes are intended for admins only, not for clients. It doesn't sound logical, but that's what he says.
This is exactly what I said previously in this thread. And it is a 100% accurate statement.
The ONLY way this can be implemented client-side is if there are some sort of standardized IMAP commands that the client can use to alter the mailboxes. There isn't.
In general, IMAP 4 doesn't allow a command to work on multiple mailboxes at a single time (outside of MULTISEARCH... but that's one reason why MULTISEARCH is experimental and really hasn't provoked much interest). That's why virtual mailboxes don't conceptually work very well as a server-level entity and instead make much more sense as a client-level feature.
michael
I don't know who designed the dovecot virtual mailboxes, but they make VERY LITTLE sense as admin only. On the other hand, virtual mailboxes on the server but managed by the client, make A LOT of sense. IMAP is expandable. I don't see a reason why Dovecot can't make extensions to the protocol to allow that. That's exactly what Google made to their IMAP servers and it works wonderfully.
As a matter of fact, I guess that's what Dovecot could use: an IMAP extension that manages labels/virtual folders/search folders, right from the client.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014, Aleve Sicofante wrote:
2014-03-17 21:14 GMT+01:00 Michael M Slusarz slusarz@curecanti.org:
Quoting Aleve Sicofante asicofante@gmail.com:
OK. Subscribed and voted, but the bug should point to "where to start" in
Dovecot's documentation.
Ok, but... where would that be? I don't see a 'Where to start' to point to...
And, well, if subscribed and voted, you could easily add that yourself, no? ;)
This isn't going to happen in thunderbird, outside of someone writing code for thunderbird to login to the dovecot server (via SSH with an admin/root password), find the dovecot config files on the server (which will vary based on each server), edit the dovecot config non-interactively, and then be be able to restart the dovecot server to make the changes stick (which, again, will vary based on each server). I would guess there is about a none percent chance of that occurring.
You can read what he says in this very thread. I'm not a google+ user
either. He just says Dovecot's virtual mailboxes are intended for admins only, not for clients. It doesn't sound logical, but that's what he says.
This is exactly what I said previously in this thread. And it is a 100% accurate statement.
The ONLY way this can be implemented client-side is if there are some sort of standardized IMAP commands that the client can use to alter the mailboxes. There isn't.
In general, IMAP 4 doesn't allow a command to work on multiple mailboxes at a single time (outside of MULTISEARCH... but that's one reason why MULTISEARCH is experimental and really hasn't provoked much interest). That's why virtual mailboxes don't conceptually work very well as a server-level entity and instead make much more sense as a client-level feature.
michael
I don't know who designed the dovecot virtual mailboxes, but they make VERY LITTLE sense as admin only. On the other hand, virtual mailboxes on the
Somebody paid for them or convinced Timo by other means, so they make sense in some environment. At least one springs into my mind easily: POP3-users on IMAP boxes. Also, they make very sense - as Michael pointed out - to merge a hierarchie of mailboxes in order to allow _each_ IMAP client access them, e.g. search through. Otherwise the client had to do it.
server but managed by the client, make A LOT of sense. IMAP is expandable. I don't see a reason why Dovecot can't make extensions to the protocol to allow that. That's exactly what Google made to their IMAP servers and it works wonderfully.
As a matter of fact, I guess that's what Dovecot could use: an IMAP extension that manages labels/virtual folders/search folders, right from the client.
There had been a thread talking about exactly that: Server-side virtual mailboxes that select messages based on keywords (labels / tags), which is possible with the KEYWORD search command. However, you would need some process (cron job, plugin, post login scripting) that sets up the config when a new keyword is created by the client.
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participants (5)
-
Aleve Sicofante
-
Charles Marcus
-
Michael M Slusarz
-
Muzaffer Tolga Ozses
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Steffen Kaiser