[Dovecot] My "fighting spam" article is live!
Getting Clueful: Five Things You Should Know About Fighting Spam
The battle for your users’ e-mail inboxes probably will never end,
but it’s not a failure of technology. Experienced e-mail and system
administrators share the key points they really, really wish you
understood.
http://www.cio.com/technology/infrastructure/security/spam/
five_things_about_fighting_spam.html?CID=28830
Thanks to everybody who contributed. :-)
Esther
Luca Corti schrieb:
On Thu, 2007-02-15 at 17:35 -0700, Esther Schindler wrote:
Thanks to everybody who contributed. :-)
Great! I mean, wow, do you realize you are actually spamming a mailing-list?
oh my...
ciao
Luca
Agree 100 % , after all in the Articel is nothing tec stuff included which help people out of the problem, so its simply the usual for marketing services bla bla
-- Mit freundlichen Gruessen Best Regards
Robert Schetterer
https://www.schetterer.org Munich/Bavaria/Germany
Huh?
First: I'd asked for input for this article on the dovecot list. I
received several replies from people who answered my question, "what
ONE thing do you wish your CIO understood about this subject?" So, at
a minimum, my message was written to let people know that the project
was complete and that their contributions mattered. (Not to mention
that a few of your online friends might have been quoted.) This is
called "good manners."
Also, I don't see that the article was irrelevant. It was meant, from
the first, to be a document that explained the techie's side of the
issue to a manager. If your CIO doesn't need to be told these things,
then I'm very happy for you -- but I've already gotten several
responses saying that a copy was sent to the boss' office. For many
readers, having the boss understand the situation _does_ help an
email admin deal with the problem (i.e. the problem of clueless
management), so I think it's relevant indeed.
Third, I'm rather irritated when I see people use the word "spam" to
mean "I'm not interested in this." You could argue that my message
was off-topic. (I would disagree, but I'd accept the viewpoint.)
However, spam is defined as unsolicited commercial e-mail. A link to
an online article is not commercial, especially if there's nothing at
that site for you to buy.
Esther Schindler senior online editor, CIO.com
On Feb 16, 2007, at 4:12 AM, Robert Schetterer wrote:
Luca Corti schrieb:
On Thu, 2007-02-15 at 17:35 -0700, Esther Schindler wrote:
Thanks to everybody who contributed. :-)
Great! I mean, wow, do you realize you are actually spamming a mailing-list?
oh my...
Agree 100 % , after all in the Articel is nothing tec stuff included which help people out of the problem, so its simply the usual for marketing services bla bla
+1
A bunch of people who earlier replied to the query for information (here, btw) have been waiting for the result. Someone, IIRC, even asked some time ago if it was delayed or so.
johannes
Esther Schindler wrote:
Huh?
First: I'd asked for input for this article on the dovecot list. I received several replies from people who answered my question, "what ONE thing do you wish your CIO understood about this subject?" So, at a minimum, my message was written to let people know that the project was complete and that their contributions mattered. (Not to mention that a few of your online friends might have been quoted.) This is called "good manners."
Also, I don't see that the article was irrelevant. It was meant, from the first, to be a document that explained the techie's side of the issue to a manager. If your CIO doesn't need to be told these things, then I'm very happy for you -- but I've already gotten several responses saying that a copy was sent to the boss' office. For many readers, having the boss understand the situation _does_ help an email admin deal with the problem (i.e. the problem of clueless management), so I think it's relevant indeed.
Third, I'm rather irritated when I see people use the word "spam" to mean "I'm not interested in this." You could argue that my message was off-topic. (I would disagree, but I'd accept the viewpoint.) However, spam is defined as unsolicited commercial e-mail. A link to an online article is not commercial, especially if there's nothing at that site for you to buy.
Esther Schindler senior online editor, CIO.com
I couldn't agree more. I'm one of those who forwarded the message up in the chain of command.
On Feb 16, 2007, at 4:12 AM, Robert Schetterer wrote:
Luca Corti schrieb:
On Thu, 2007-02-15 at 17:35 -0700, Esther Schindler wrote:
Thanks to everybody who contributed. :-)
Great! I mean, wow, do you realize you are actually spamming a mailing-list?
oh my...
Like Esther said, the fact that the issue is of no interest to you doesn't make the submission less valid. I wonder if you eagerly follow every post to every list you subscribe because you are so very interested in what everyone has to say about everything...
Agree 100 % , after all in the Articel is nothing tec stuff included which help people out of the problem, so its simply the usual for marketing services bla bla
Just in case you haven't realized yet, fighting Spam is not a tech only matter, certainly not for those who work in a corporate environment or that have to report to some higher level. Assuming that you really read the article, what you probably meant was that it was of no concerned to anyone running a mail system at home with mail accounts for the wife and kids.
My 2¢,
Hugo Monteiro.
-- ci.fct.unl.pt:~# cat .signature
Hugo Monteiro Email : hugo.monteiro@fct.unl.pt Telefone : +351 212948300 Ext.15307
Centro de Informática Faculdade de Ciências e Tecnologia da Universidade Nova de Lisboa Quinta da Torre 2829-516 Caparica Portugal Telefone: +351 212948596 Fax: +351 212948548 www.ci.fct.unl.pt apoio@fct.unl.pt
ci.fct.unl.pt:~# _
On Friday February 16, 2007 at 11:06:36 (AM) Esther Schindler wrote:
First: I'd asked for input for this article on the dovecot list. I
received several replies from people who answered my question, "what
ONE thing do you wish your CIO understood about this subject?" So, at
a minimum, my message was written to let people know that the project
was complete and that their contributions mattered. (Not to mention
that a few of your online friends might have been quoted.) This is
called "good manners."Also, I don't see that the article was irrelevant. It was meant, from
the first, to be a document that explained the techie's side of the
issue to a manager. If your CIO doesn't need to be told these things,
then I'm very happy for you -- but I've already gotten several
responses saying that a copy was sent to the boss' office. For many
readers, having the boss understand the situation _does_ help an
email admin deal with the problem (i.e. the problem of clueless
management), so I think it's relevant indeed.Third, I'm rather irritated when I see people use the word "spam" to
mean "I'm not interested in this." You could argue that my message
was off-topic. (I would disagree, but I'd accept the viewpoint.)
However, spam is defined as unsolicited commercial e-mail. A link to
an online article is not commercial, especially if there's nothing at
that site for you to buy.Esther Schindler senior online editor, CIO.com
First, please don't top post. If you don't know what that means, Google for it.
Second, according to webster, their definition of SPAM:
unsolicited usually commercial e-mail sent to a large number of addressesI receive emails requesting that I visit various sites, etc. some are trying to sell me something, others trying to impose their own philosophy on me. It makes no difference, it is still SPAM, and I report it as such. If I did not request it from you -- you meaning any email sender -- then it is SPAM.
Mailing list are somewhat different of course. Unfortunately, they are being inundated with SPAM also. Someone signs up and immediate sends their garbage to the list subscribers. Reporting them as SPAM can be problematic unfortunately.
-- Gerard
First, please don't top post. If you don't know what that means, Google for it.
Get over it... sometimes it is important, other times it isn't.
Second, according to webster, their definition of SPAM:
unsolicited usually commercial e-mail sent to a large number of addresses
The operative word here being UNSOLICITED.
Esthers message was NOT unsolicited, hence the definition you provided does not apply.
I receive emails requesting that I visit various sites, etc. some are trying to sell me something, others trying to impose their own philosophy on me. It makes no difference, it is still SPAM, and I report it as such. If I did not request it from you -- you meaning any email sender -- then it is SPAM.
Oh, so you request each and every message that comes in through the list? Did you request mine (this one)? If not, does that make it SPAM?
Mailing list are somewhat different of course. Unfortunately, they are being inundated with SPAM also. Someone signs up and immediate sends their garbage to the list subscribers. Reporting them as SPAM can be problematic unfortunately.
Again - you are correct, with regard to true spam, which Esthers was not.
Thanks, Esther, for a well-written and relevant article, and for letting us know when it was finished.
--
Best regards,
Charles
On Fri, 2007-02-16 at 09:06 -0700, Esther Schindler wrote:
First: I'd asked for input for this article on the dovecot list. I
received several replies from people who answered my question, "what
ONE thing do you wish your CIO understood about this subject?" So, at
a minimum, my message was written to let people know that the project
was complete and that their contributions mattered. (Not to mention
that a few of your online friends might have been quoted.) This is
called "good manners."
Posting on topic messages to mailing lists is also called good manners. This is a technical mailing list strictly focused on dovecot. Dovecot has nothing to do with spam. I'm sure you already know spam is not the same to everybody. Such a message on the dovecot mailing list is spam for me.
http://www.dovecot.org/mailinglists.html
Also, I don't see that the article was irrelevant. It was meant, from
the first, to be a document that explained the techie's side of the
issue to a manager. If your CIO doesn't need to be told these things,
then I'm very happy for you -- but I've already gotten several
responses saying that a copy was sent to the boss' office. For many
readers, having the boss understand the situation _does_ help an
email admin deal with the problem (i.e. the problem of clueless
management), so I think it's relevant indeed.
I don't think CIOs read this list or, if they do, expect to be informed about spam from this list. I'm not questioning the actual contents of your article.
Third, I'm rather irritated when I see people use the word "spam" to
mean "I'm not interested in this." You could argue that my message
was off-topic. (I would disagree, but I'd accept the viewpoint.)
However, spam is defined as unsolicited commercial e-mail. A link to
an online article is not commercial, especially if there's nothing at
that site for you to buy.
People subscribed to this list are interested in dovecot related topics. I'm really interested in understanding how your message may be considered on topic here. Your message is mostly advertising your article, on a topic not relevant to the list. If you wanted to inform peers about your project status you could have at least tagged your message OT or even better sent a message directly to them.
Honestly I'm rather irritated by your attitude.
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 20:14:03 +0100 Luca Corti luca@leenoox.net wrote:
If you wanted to inform peers about your project status you could have at least tagged your message OT or even better sent a message directly to them.
Honestly I'm rather irritated by your attitude.
Please don't send it to me. I am too busy collecting all the millions I have won in some email lottery that I never heard of.
-- Gerard
Posting on topic messages to mailing lists is also called good manners. This is a technical mailing list strictly focused on dovecot. Dovecot has nothing to do with spam.
Dovecot is a mail server. Spam is email. It may not be *directly* related, but I would disagree with your assertion that it has NOTHING to do with it.
I'm sure you already know spam is not the same to everybody. Such a message on the dovecot mailing list is spam for me.
Ana again - the definition of 'spam' is NOT just email that you don't want.
You have a delete key - I suggest you stop ADDING to the problem that you are COMPLAINING about and USE IT.
Honestly I'm rather irritated by your attitude.
Ditto... I suggest you let it go...
--
Best regards,
Charles
On Sun, 2007-02-18 at 15:34 -0500, Charles Marcus wrote:
Dovecot is a mail server. Spam is email. It may not be *directly* related, but I would disagree with your assertion that it has NOTHING to do with it.
Dovecot is a POP/IMAP server. Spam has to do with mail routing, which is done by MTAs through SMTP.
Ana again - the definition of 'spam' is NOT just email that you don't want. You have a delete key - I suggest you stop ADDING to the problem that you are COMPLAINING about and USE IT.
Honestly I'm rather irritated by your attitude. Ditto... I suggest you let it go...
That's exactely what I am going to do.
ciao
Luca
Dovecot is a POP/IMAP server. Spam has to do with mail routing, which is done by MTAs through SMTP.
The results of spam are experienced *after* *delivery* - ie, when accessing a pop/imap server.
*All* email is routed through many different MTA's through SMTP, spam or otherwise.
--
Best regards,
Charles
Please, can you stop solving this chicken-egg problem here? You have each others e-mail so you can easily continue in private conversation.
Cheers
Láďa-----Original Message----- From: dovecot-bounces@dovecot.org [mailto:dovecot-bounces@dovecot.org] On Behalf Of Charles Marcus Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 11:56 AM To: Dovecot Mailing List Subject: Re: [Dovecot] My "fighting spam" article is live!
Dovecot is a POP/IMAP server. Spam has to do with mail routing, which is done by MTAs through SMTP.
The results of spam are experienced *after* *delivery* - ie, when accessing a pop/imap server.
*All* email is routed through many different MTA's through SMTP, spam or otherwise.
--
Best regards,
Charles
01:35, venerdì 16 febbraio 2007 - Esther Schindler scrive: |> Getting Clueful: Five Things You Should Know About Fighting Spam [...] |> Thanks to everybody who contributed. :-)
At the and of the article I read about Assp anti spam proxy (http://assp.sourceforge.net).
I run it under test for a couple of weeks and now it is in production on our mailserver with good results.
(This partially OT post because I hope a mention could be useful to somebody else on the list as it has been for me).
Bye
-- Claudio Succa PERTEL - Torino - Italy +39-011-437.4141 http://www.pertel.it http://www.uniassist.it
participants (10)
-
Charles Marcus
-
Claudio Succa
-
Esther Schindler
-
Gerard
-
Gerard Seibert
-
Hugo Monteiro
-
Johannes Berg
-
Luca Corti
-
Láďa
-
Robert Schetterer