adding caldav/carddav next to dovecot
I hope it is ok to post this off-topic question here. I was wondering if there are here environments running that offer next to dovecot also calendar and contacts services. In the past I was testing a bit with the one from Apple, but I think it is being discontinued because of converting the python 2 code.
I am looking for some experience with a setup provisioning >10k users. Not that I have such requirement, but I want to know if the solution is stable, efficient and optionally can scale. I need something efficient, because I do not have to many resources and high iops available. I also do not want any other other 'crap' just the cal (and card) dav solution.
https://github.com/1and1/cosmo This looks interesting (used 1und1 in Germany?) but not big community
https://sabre.io/dav/install/ This is in php ...
here, to date,
is very well behaved.
I have seen that one, don't you think that the performance difference between an interpreted language vs compiled language comes into play with 10k users?
I have seen that one, don't you think that the performance difference between an interpreted language vs compiled language comes into play with 10k users?
i'm sure it does.
and that's a subjective decision about an objective measure.
i've ~ 2K users, with radicale running alongside dovecot/fts-flatcurve/tika+postfix+nginx on 16-core Ryzen with 64GB, and as mentioned -- well enough behaved. could it all be snappier? of course.
I have seen that one, don't you think that the performance difference between an interpreted language vs compiled language comes into play with 10k users?
i'm sure it does.
and that's a subjective decision about an objective measure.
i've ~ 2K users, with radicale running alongside dovecot/fts-
If I may ask, how many requests per second are these 2k users generate? I have currently created some script in bash to do caldav puts/gets. But I seem to be hitting the limits of the script, and I do not know of any tool that can alter and put content.
On Fri, 2022-10-14 at 14:33 +0000, Marc wrote:
here, to date,
is very well behaved.
I have seen that one, don't you think that the performance difference between an interpreted language vs compiled language comes into play with 10k users?
I don't have exp with 10k users, but I switched from radicale (which worked great!) to Nextcloud which has cloud functionality in addition to Card/CalDav interfaces too. Perhaps Nextcloud might fit your requirements. https://nextcloud.com/globalscale/
-Jim P.
I don't have exp with 10k users, but I switched from radicale (which worked great!) to Nextcloud which has cloud functionality in addition to Card/CalDav interfaces too. Perhaps Nextcloud might fit your requirements. https://nextcloud.com/globalscale/
NextCloud's a fine solution. but, the OP's requirements specifically included:
"I also do not want any other other 'crap' just the cal (and card) dav solution."i suspect it's a more resource-heavy solution than Radicale; but that's an unmeasured WAG. ymmv.
On Fri, 2022-10-14 at 14:08 -0400, PGNet Dev wrote:
I don't have exp with 10k users, but I switched from radicale (which worked great!) to Nextcloud which has cloud functionality in addition to Card/CalDav interfaces too. Perhaps Nextcloud might fit your requirements. https://nextcloud.com/globalscale/
NextCloud's a fine solution. but, the OP's requirements specifically included:
"I also do not want any other other 'crap' just the cal (and card) dav solution."
i suspect it's a more resource-heavy solution than Radicale; but that's an unmeasured WAG. ymmv.
The thing to know about Nextcloud is that it can be thought of as an application container. If you don't want file sharing functionality, disable those bits, etc. You don't have to have all that Nextcloud offers just to have CardDav/CalDav support. Additionally, using Nextcloud for Card/CalDav could give users an alternate webgui to manage their Card/CalDav data. That said, I do agree that Nextcloud for just Card/CalDav alone would be overkill (but it will certainly scale and it's robustly supported)
-Jim P.
here, to date,
is very well behaved.
Looking over radicale, i only see the option for plain text or MD5 passwords. I don't see an option to have authentication against an existing DB, like the same used for Dovecot Authentication. I also don't see a way to configure caldav data to be stored in the same location as IMAP files. No %user %domain variables that can be used in the config path. A way to store calendars outside of linux user home directories since users are virtual.
Did i just miss these features? Documentation or tutorials for this ability?
On 10/14/2022 3:13 PM, dovecot@ptld.com wrote:
here, to date,
is very well behaved.
Looking over radicale, i only see the option for plain text or MD5 passwords. I don't see an option to have authentication against an existing DB, like the same used for Dovecot Authentication. I also don't see a way to configure caldav data to be stored in the same location as IMAP files. No %user %domain variables that can be used in the config path. A way to store calendars outside of linux user home directories since users are virtual.
Did i just miss these features? Documentation or tutorials for this ability?
Radicale v1 used to be able to authenticate via IMAP, therefore it would simply log into Dovecot via loopback and share the same auth. For whatever reason, this was removed in v2, which was disappointing.
But, there's a project on github which adds it back via plugin. I haven't tried it yet: https://github.com/comzeradd/radicale-imap I've been using htpasswd in the meantime.
It is not difficult to configure Radicale storage for virtual users using the "filesystem" backend. I just set the "filesystem_folder" to point alongside the dovecot mail_location, and radicale resolves the login name to a directory there.
I only use it at small scale, so I can't comment on performance with 10K users.
On 14.10.22 16:13, Marc wrote:
I also do not want any other other 'crap' just the cal (and card) dav solution.
sorry about my suggestion, but I am just a big fan of SOGo (no affiliation with) from sogo.nu ... it may not be a solution for you because it offers caldav, carddav, webmail, but performance is top notch, maybe you want to have a look anyway
A HUGE second for SOGo
We used it for many years in a Gentoo/Dovecot/Postfix environment.
It was super fast/snappy, and extremely reliable, and works perfectly with both Thunderbird AND Outlook (this was a huge plus for some of our users who ridiculously preferred Outlook)...
they also offer implementation and ongoing support services at very reasonable rates, but if you prefer to do everything yourself, the documentation is perfectly adequate, and their email support list should address any potential issues you might have.
SOGo rocks...
On 10/14/2022 3:35 PM, infoomatic wrote
On 14.10.22 16:13, Marc wrote:
I also do not want any other other 'crap' just the cal (and card) dav solution. sorry about my suggestion, but I am just a big fan of SOGo (no affiliation with) from sogo.nu ... it may not be a solution for you because it offers caldav, carddav, webmail, but performance is top notch, maybe you want to have a look anyway
Tanstaafl skrev den 2022-10-15 16:11:
A HUGE second for SOGo
We used it for many years in a Gentoo/Dovecot/Postfix environment.
horde is missing in gentoo now :/
Tanstaafl skrev den 2022-10-15 16:11:
A HUGE second for SOGo
We used it for many years in a Gentoo/Dovecot/Postfix environment.
horde is missing in gentoo now :/
Maybe it is old fashioned or even modern. But I like the idea of smaller single task focussed projects (interfacing with others). All these 'huge' solutions offering all kinds of functionality, how can these development teams be an ace in all these different areas. If a single element is being compromised, the whole environment is hacked and accessible.
El 16/10/22 a les 12:21, Marc ha escrit:
Tanstaafl skrev den 2022-10-15 16:11:
A HUGE second for SOGo
We used it for many years in a Gentoo/Dovecot/Postfix environment.
horde is missing in gentoo now :/
Maybe it is old fashioned or even modern. But I like the idea of smaller single task focussed projects (interfacing with others). All these 'huge' solutions offering all kinds of functionality, how can these development teams be an ace in all these different areas. If a single element is being compromised, the whole environment is hacked and accessible.
+1
--
Narcis Garcia
I'm using this dedicated address because personal addresses aren't masked enough at this mail public archive. Public archive administrator should fix this against automated addresses collectors.
Début du message réexpédié :
De: Tanstaafl tanstaafl@libertytrek.org Objet: Rép. : adding caldav/carddav next to dovecot Date: 15 octobre 2022 à 16:11:43 UTC+2 À: infoomatic infoomatic@gmx.at, dovecot@dovecot.org
A HUGE second for SOGo
We used it for many years in a Gentoo/Dovecot/Postfix environment.
It was super fast/snappy, and extremely reliable, and works perfectly with both Thunderbird AND Outlook (this was a huge plus for some of our users who ridiculously preferred Outlook)...
they also offer implementation and ongoing support services at very reasonable rates, but if you prefer to do everything yourself, the documentation is perfectly adequate, and their email support list should address any potential issues you might have.
SOGo rocks…
Out of curiosity, how many users do you have on SOGo ?
One big drawback I had when experimenting with it, is that its single threaded worker model scales poorly compared to a server design to support many thousands connections by worker.
I think rather than Sabre's DAV, you're after their Baikal server.
Sabre is also the guts behind Nextcloud's Contacts and Calendar dav sync, which you might want to look into, especially if you can see a need for sharing contacts among a group of people, as well as files, group chat and all the other features of Nextcloud. To bring it back onto topic, Nextcloud can also be used as a webmail interface to dovecot, of course.
P.
Another CalDAV & CardDAV focused server software: www.davical.org
El 14/10/22 a les 16:13, Marc ha escrit:
I hope it is ok to post this off-topic question here. I was wondering if there are here environments running that offer next to dovecot also calendar and contacts services. In the past I was testing a bit with the one from Apple, but I think it is being discontinued because of converting the python 2 code.
I am looking for some experience with a setup provisioning >10k users. Not that I have such requirement, but I want to know if the solution is stable, efficient and optionally can scale. I need something efficient, because I do not have to many resources and high iops available. I also do not want any other other 'crap' just the cal (and card) dav solution.
https://github.com/1and1/cosmo This looks interesting (used 1und1 in Germany?) but not big community
https://sabre.io/dav/install/ This is in php ...
--
Narcis Garcia
I'm using this dedicated address because personal addresses aren't masked enough at this mail public archive. Public archive administrator should fix this against automated addresses collectors.
Hi,
we are using Sabre DAV. Very stable and its performance depends on the performance of your webserver.
We are using Apache-MPM prefork. If your webserver can handle HTTP-requests for 10k users, it will handle CARDDAV/CALDAV-requests for that amount of users as well.
If you are familiar with php-programming, you may extend Sabre DAV. Standard Sabre DAV has its own user database. We extended the SabreDAV authentication mechanism such that user-credentials are pulled from the same database that Dovecot is using.
Peter
Am Fr., 14. Okt. 2022 um 16:14 Uhr schrieb Marc Marc@f1-outsourcing.eu:
I hope it is ok to post this off-topic question here. I was wondering if there are here environments running that offer next to dovecot also calendar and contacts services. In the past I was testing a bit with the one from Apple, but I think it is being discontinued because of converting the python 2 code.
I am looking for some experience with a setup provisioning >10k users. Not that I have such requirement, but I want to know if the solution is stable, efficient and optionally can scale. I need something efficient, because I do not have to many resources and high iops available. I also do not want any other other 'crap' just the cal (and card) dav solution.
https://github.com/1and1/cosmo This looks interesting (used 1und1 in Germany?) but not big community
https://sabre.io/dav/install/ This is in php ...
-- Peter Koch Passauer Strasse 32, 47249 Duisburg Tel.: 0172 2470263
we are using Sabre DAV. Very stable and its performance depends on the performance of your webserver.
If I may ask, what average rate of requests per second per 1000 users do you have?
We are using Apache-MPM prefork. If your webserver can handle HTTP- requests for 10k users, it will handle CARDDAV/CALDAV-requests for that amount of users as well.
I was thinking of putting a container behind a proxy (and ideally autoscalling instances) so support for the proxy-protocol would be nice.
If you are familiar with php-programming, you may extend Sabre DAV. Standard Sabre DAV has its own user database. We extended the SabreDAV authentication mechanism such that user-credentials are pulled from the same database that Dovecot is using.
I would prefer ldap
On 2022-10-14 14:13, Marc wrote:
I hope it is ok to post this off-topic question here. I was wondering if there are here environments running that offer next to dovecot also calendar and contacts services. In the past I was testing a bit with the one from Apple, but I think it is being discontinued because of converting the python 2 code.
I am looking for some experience with a setup provisioning >10k users. Not that I have such requirement, but I want to know if the solution is stable, efficient and optionally can scale. I need something efficient, because I do not have to many resources and high iops available. I also do not want any other other 'crap' just the cal (and card) dav solution.
https://github.com/1and1/cosmo This looks interesting (used 1und1 in Germany?) but not big community
https://sabre.io/dav/install/ This is in php ...
Hi there,
I tried Roundcube Calendar and Tasks List plugins from Kolab, tbh they are ok, and I would recommend them yet SOGo seems that it stands out in terms of layout and mobile mode performance given RC one its PHP/JS based with caching perhaps can outplay the latter as SOGo Objective C backend and fully AJAX frontend based it plays smoothly in mobile mode imho better than RC. In RC, I was able to import directly from email to Calendar some events in ICS format and it worked like a charm. I think RC its efficient and can scale efficiently as long as you configure the webserver and its load balancing solution properly.
Good luck.
Zakaria.
On 2022-10-14 14:13, Marc wrote:
I hope it is ok to post this off-topic question here. I was wondering if there are here environments running that offer next to dovecot also calendar and contacts services. In the past I was testing a bit with the one from Apple, but I think it is being discontinued because of converting the python 2 code.
I am looking for some experience with a setup provisioning >10k users. Not that I have such requirement, but I want to know if the solution is stable, efficient and optionally can scale. I need something efficient, because I do not have to many resources and high iops available. I also do not want any other other 'crap' just the cal (and card) dav solution.
https://github.com/1and1/cosmo This looks interesting (used 1und1 in Germany?) but not big community
https://sabre.io/dav/install/ This is in php ...
Hi there,
I tried Roundcube Calendar and Tasks List plugins from Kolab, tbh they are good, and I would recommend them yet SOGo seems that it stands out in terms of layout and mobile mode smooth performance given RC one its PHP/JS based with caching perhaps can outplay the latter as SOGo is fully AJAX frontend based it plays smoothly in mobile mode imho better than RC thats so static. In RC, I was able to import directly from email to Calendar some events in ICS format and it worked like a charm. I think RC its great too and can scale efficiently as long as you configure the webserver and its load balancing solution properly.
Btw I ought to note that I am genuinely not a spam, and my email TLD was blocked by your mail server when CC'ed this email.
Good luck.
Zakaria.
participants (13)
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Benny Pedersen
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dovecot.pkoch＠dfgh.net
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dovecot＠ptld.com
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hi＠zakaria.website
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infoomatic
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Jean-Daniel
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Jim Popovitch
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Marc
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Narcis Garcia
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PGNet Dev
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Plutocrat
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Tanstaafl
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Tom Talpey