Lots of people must have had this issue before me - users using different devices&software (pc, smartphone, tablet, thunderbird, outlook, webmail) and languages (e.g. English on the PC, German on the iPhone), some folders end of with different names - e.g. "Sent" and "Gesendete Elemente" - meaning the same thing, namely "sent mails".
How do you map these to just one folder such that it shows up correctly independently of what the user happens to be using?
It sounds like something for the
mailbox "Sent" { special_use = \Drafts }
config directive? Is that what it might be used for?
mailbox "Sent" { special_use = \Sent } mailbox "Gesendete Elemente" { special_use = \Sent }
-- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.9°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland.
On Monday 25 August 2014 21:03:26 Per Jessen wrote:
Lots of people must have had this issue before me - users using different devices&software (pc, smartphone, tablet, thunderbird, outlook, webmail) and languages (e.g. English on the PC, German on the iPhone), some folders end of with different names - e.g. "Sent" and "Gesendete Elemente" - meaning the same thing, namely "sent mails".
How do you map these to just one folder such that it shows up correctly independently of what the user happens to be using?
It sounds like something for the
mailbox "Sent" { special_use = \Drafts }
config directive? Is that what it might be used for?
mailbox "Sent" { special_use = \Sent } mailbox "Gesendete Elemente" { special_use = \Sent }
I think metadata support can do the job (and more) . See Kolab project
Mihai Bădici http://mihai.badici.ro
Mihai Badici wrote:
On Monday 25 August 2014 21:03:26 Per Jessen wrote:
Lots of people must have had this issue before me - users using different devices&software (pc, smartphone, tablet, thunderbird, outlook, webmail) and languages (e.g. English on the PC, German on the iPhone), some folders end of with different names - e.g. "Sent" and "Gesendete Elemente" - meaning the same thing, namely "sent mails".
How do you map these to just one folder such that it shows up correctly independently of what the user happens to be using?
It sounds like something for the
mailbox "Sent" { special_use = \Drafts }
config directive? Is that what it might be used for?
mailbox "Sent" { special_use = \Sent } mailbox "Gesendete Elemente" { special_use = \Sent }
I think metadata support can do the job (and more) . See Kolab project
Well, let's stick to dovecot for now - how do people deal with this issue in dovecot?
-- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.9°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland.
On Monday 25 August 2014 21:23:57 Per Jessen wrote:
Mihai Badici wrote:
On Monday 25 August 2014 21:03:26 Per Jessen wrote:
Lots of people must have had this issue before me - users using different devices&software (pc, smartphone, tablet, thunderbird, outlook, webmail) and languages (e.g. English on the PC, German on the iPhone), some folders end of with different names - e.g. "Sent" and "Gesendete Elemente" - meaning the same thing, namely "sent mails".
How do you map these to just one folder such that it shows up correctly independently of what the user happens to be using?
It sounds like something for the
mailbox "Sent" {
special_use = \Drafts
}
config directive? Is that what it might be used for?
mailbox "Sent" {
special_use = \Sent
} mailbox "Gesendete Elemente" {
special_use = \Sent
}
I think metadata support can do the job (and more) . See Kolab project
Well, let's stick to dovecot for now - how do people deal with this issue in dovecot?
You mean not people, but mail clients. There are plugins for roundcube, thunderbird ( ugly) kontact. Folders are "annotated" as: mail, contacts, calendar etc. You can associate each folder with an annotation, as, let say, a label. But your client need to read that annotation.
In fact as I know Roundcube can do a "translation" of folder names ( you can asign "Sent Mails" as "Gesendete Elemente" in it's config) but if you want a more complex solution I think metadata is the right (and heavy) way.
-- Mihai Bădici http://mihai.badici.ro
I think metadata support can do the job (and more) . See Kolab project
Well, let's stick to dovecot for now - how do people deal with this issue in dovecot?
What i missed is that the metadata support is available in dovecot starting from 2.2.9 if i remember exactly.
Mihai Bădici http://mihai.badici.ro
Mihai Badici wrote:
I think metadata support can do the job (and more) . See Kolab project
Well, let's stick to dovecot for now - how do people deal with this issue in dovecot?
What i missed is that the metadata support is available in dovecot starting from 2.2.9 if i remember exactly.
Okay, I'll have a closer look, thanks.
-- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.9°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland.
On Tuesday 26 August 2014 07:44:04 Per Jessen wrote:
Mihai Badici wrote:
I think metadata support can do the job (and more) . See Kolab project
Well, let's stick to dovecot for now - how do people deal with this issue in dovecot?
What i missed is that the metadata support is available in dovecot starting from 2.2.9 if i remember exactly.
Okay, I'll have a closer look, thanks.
You can use the config from here to enable metadata ( only as an example): http://mihai.badici.ro/linux/machinet/debian/machinet-debian.tgz
But the client implementation... is on you :)
-- Mihai Bădici
Mihai Badici wrote:
On Tuesday 26 August 2014 07:44:04 Per Jessen wrote:
Mihai Badici wrote:
I think metadata support can do the job (and more) . See Kolab project
Well, let's stick to dovecot for now - how do people deal with this issue in dovecot?
What i missed is that the metadata support is available in dovecot starting from 2.2.9 if i remember exactly.
Okay, I'll have a closer look, thanks.
You can use the config from here to enable metadata ( only as an example): http://mihai.badici.ro/linux/machinet/debian/machinet-debian.tgz
But the client implementation... is on you :)
Thanks Mihai. If I understand you correctly, this won't really work? I mean, any client implementation is outside my reach.
-- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.9°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland.
On 08/26/2014 08:21 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Thanks Mihai. If I understand you correctly, this won't really work? I mean, any client implementation is outside my reach.
You understand correctly. The same applies to SPECIAL-USE. I'm afraid most clients do not support it. Some already do, e.g. Roundcube 1.1. -- Aleksander 'A.L.E.C' Machniak LAN Management System Developer [http://lms.org.pl] Roundcube Webmail Developer [http://roundcube.net] --------------------------------------------------- PGP: 19359DC1 @@ GG: 2275252 @@ WWW: http://alec.pl
Quoting Per Jessen per@computer.org:
Lots of people must have had this issue before me - users using different devices&software (pc, smartphone, tablet, thunderbird, outlook, webmail) and languages (e.g. English on the PC, German on the iPhone), some folders end of with different names - e.g. "Sent" and "Gesendete Elemente" - meaning the same thing, namely "sent mails".
How do you map these to just one folder such that it shows up correctly independently of what the user happens to be using?
It sounds like something for the
mailbox "Sent" { special_use = \Drafts }
config directive? Is that what it might be used for?
mailbox "Sent" { special_use = \Sent } mailbox "Gesendete Elemente" { special_use = \Sent }
Remember that SPECIAL-USE flags are informational. A MUA remains free
to do anything they want regarding where they save sent messages.
An option is to use virtual mailboxes to map to a single master Sent
mailbox. But you then have to define all possible combinations of
Sent mailbox labels, so it's not foolproof either.
michael
Michael M Slusarz wrote:
Quoting Per Jessen per@computer.org:
Lots of people must have had this issue before me - users using different devices&software (pc, smartphone, tablet, thunderbird, outlook, webmail) and languages (e.g. English on the PC, German on the iPhone), some folders end of with different names - e.g. "Sent" and "Gesendete Elemente" - meaning the same thing, namely "sent mails".
How do you map these to just one folder such that it shows up correctly independently of what the user happens to be using?
It sounds like something for the
mailbox "Sent" { special_use = \Drafts }
config directive? Is that what it might be used for?
mailbox "Sent" { special_use = \Sent } mailbox "Gesendete Elemente" { special_use = \Sent }
Remember that SPECIAL-USE flags are informational. A MUA remains free to do anything they want regarding where they save sent messages.
An option is to use virtual mailboxes to map to a single master Sent mailbox. But you then have to define all possible combinations of Sent mailbox labels, so it's not foolproof either.
I wasn't aware of the virtual plugin, thanks. Like you say, this looks like defining one virtual mailbox "Sent" to cover all of the various names, depending on MUA and language. Similar for Draft, Junk, and Trash. Does anyone have as working example?
-- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.9°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland.
Per Jessen wrote:
Michael M Slusarz wrote:
Quoting Per Jessen per@computer.org:
Lots of people must have had this issue before me - users using different devices&software (pc, smartphone, tablet, thunderbird, outlook, webmail) and languages (e.g. English on the PC, German on the iPhone), some folders end of with different names - e.g. "Sent" and "Gesendete Elemente" - meaning the same thing, namely "sent mails".
How do you map these to just one folder such that it shows up correctly independently of what the user happens to be using?
It sounds like something for the
mailbox "Sent" { special_use = \Drafts }
config directive? Is that what it might be used for?
mailbox "Sent" { special_use = \Sent } mailbox "Gesendete Elemente" { special_use = \Sent }
Remember that SPECIAL-USE flags are informational. A MUA remains free to do anything they want regarding where they save sent messages.
An option is to use virtual mailboxes to map to a single master Sent mailbox. But you then have to define all possible combinations of Sent mailbox labels, so it's not foolproof either.
I wasn't aware of the virtual plugin, thanks. Like you say, this looks like defining one virtual mailbox "Sent" to cover all of the various names, depending on MUA and language. Similar for Draft, Junk, and Trash. Does anyone have as working example?
I'm trying to get my head around this - the special_use flag is given out to an IMAP client as a _hint_ of where certain messages belong? If that's correct, what would be the purpose of having two (or more) such hints for e.g. \Sent ?
-- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.9°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland.
Quoting Per Jessen per@computer.org:
I'm trying to get my head around this - the special_use flag is given out to an IMAP client as a _hint_ of where certain messages belong?
Yes. There's no guarantee that any of the messages currently in that
mailbox adhere to that attribute though, so you can't make assumptions
about any individual message. But from a configuration perspective,
it can be useful to at least provide a better default value(s) than a
MUA-specific hard-coded value.
If that's correct, what would be the purpose of having two (or more) such hints for e.g. \Sent ?
We allow different "identities" to be configured in our client -- e.g.
I send out messages under a number of different
e-mail/header/signatures. It is *very* handy to have the sent-mail
messages saved to a different mailbox for each identity. The RFC
defines the \Sent flag to include any mailbox "used to hold copies of
messages that have been sent." By this definition, each mailbox
should be flagged with \Sent.
Or you have an existing account that contains pre-existing "Sent",
"Sent Mail", and "sentmail" mailboxes. All of those are valid sent
mailboxes under the \Sent definition.
michael
Michael M Slusarz wrote:
Quoting Per Jessen per@computer.org:
I'm trying to get my head around this - the special_use flag is given out to an IMAP client as a _hint_ of where certain messages belong?
Yes. There's no guarantee that any of the messages currently in that mailbox adhere to that attribute though, so you can't make assumptions about any individual message. But from a configuration perspective, it can be useful to at least provide a better default value(s) than a MUA-specific hard-coded value.
Right, thanks.
If that's correct, what would be the purpose of having two (or more) such hints for e.g. \Sent ?
We allow different "identities" to be configured in our client -- e.g. I send out messages under a number of different e-mail/header/signatures. It is *very* handy to have the sent-mail messages saved to a different mailbox for each identity. The RFC defines the \Sent flag to include any mailbox "used to hold copies of messages that have been sent." By this definition, each mailbox should be flagged with \Sent.
Or you have an existing account that contains pre-existing "Sent", "Sent Mail", and "sentmail" mailboxes. All of those are valid sent mailboxes under the \Sent definition.
Yes, that would be an example - I have at least 6 different names for "Sent", some accounts use three or even four. I gather support of these hints is still quite limited, but I'm still struggling with understanding what good multiple hints of e.g. "Sent" is to a client? Is the hint also used to identify places to look for sent mail?
Interesting stuff - now what about the actual problem of mapping multiple such mailboxes into one? My immediate thought was "symlinks" - would that work?
-- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.9°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland.
Quoting Per Jessen per@computer.org:
Michael M Slusarz wrote:
Or you have an existing account that contains pre-existing "Sent", "Sent Mail", and "sentmail" mailboxes. All of those are valid sent mailboxes under the \Sent definition.
Yes, that would be an example - I have at least 6 different names for "Sent", some accounts use three or even four. I gather support of these hints is still quite limited, but I'm still struggling with understanding what good multiple hints of e.g. "Sent" is to a client?
A client has a pre-defined search within all sent-mail messages. This
search should be done in all/any mailbox that the server is reporting
that contains sent messages.
Is the hint also used to identify places to look for sent mail?
Yes. And therein lies the issue: the flag is being used as both a
configuration aid *and* a hint as to the contents of the current
mailbox. These are not mutually inclusive.
michael
Dear Per, what about using the "Mailbox alias plugin" (http://wiki2.dovecot.org/Plugins/MailboxAlias)?
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Distinti saluti / Kind regards De Zordo Patrick patrick@spamreducer.eu
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: dovecot [mailto:dovecot-bounces@dovecot.org] Im Auftrag von Per Jessen Gesendet: Montag, 25. August 2014 21:03 An: dovecot@dovecot.org Betreff: Special-Use Mailboxes ?
Lots of people must have had this issue before me - users using different devices&software (pc, smartphone, tablet, thunderbird, outlook, webmail) and languages (e.g. English on the PC, German on the iPhone), some folders end of with different names - e.g. "Sent" and "Gesendete Elemente" - meaning the same thing, namely "sent mails".
How do you map these to just one folder such that it shows up correctly independently of what the user happens to be using?
It sounds like something for the
mailbox "Sent" { special_use = \Drafts }
config directive? Is that what it might be used for?
mailbox "Sent" { special_use = \Sent } mailbox "Gesendete Elemente" { special_use = \Sent }
-- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.9°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland.
participants (5)
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A.L.E.C
-
Michael M Slusarz
-
Mihai Badici
-
Patrick De Zordo
-
Per Jessen