Halo,
Has anyones had experiences with feeding usenet into imap folders, we like to have some group for all user, any problem with message limit? We only want the text newsgroups?
On 09/11/2014 07:21 AM, Edwardo Garcia wrote:
Has anyones had experiences with feeding usenet into imap folders, we like to have some group for all user, any problem with message limit? We only want the text newsgroups?
I haven't, but I'm intrigued by the concept. Please summarize back here if you make any progress on this.
-Dave-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ/3 New Kensington, PA
On 9/11/14, Edwardo Garcia wdgarc88@gmail.com wrote:
Halo,
Has anyones had experiences with feeding usenet into imap folders, we like to have some group for all user, any problem with message limit? We only want the text newsgroups?
Thats crazy!
Depending on your news feed that will get huge over time, and if you try get a back feed of existing posts, thats even crazier, my upstream feeds me over FORTY THOUSAND text newsgroups. thats unrealistic to feed into imap, just advertise your news server, or if you dont have one, set up inn on a spare machine, hell for a couple thousand users, a junk box (ie: even a 10yo 32bit desktop PC with half a gig of ram will run nicely) starting out you wont need terabytes of disk space, but heck, a 1TB sata drive is cheap enough so if it fails its no bother, a 1TB scsi, might be a different story LOL (but of course is much much more reliable than sata).
There are a few places around who will give you a free feed if you dont have one, and if you get stuck ask me off list, I get one off someone who used to be on this list, though he's likely forgotten that I do as it was a couple years ago he connected us up :-)
On 9/12/14, Nick Edwards nick.z.edwards@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/11/14, Edwardo Garcia wdgarc88@gmail.com wrote:
Halo,
Has anyones had experiences with feeding usenet into imap folders, we like to have some group for all user, any problem with message limit? We only want the text newsgroups?
Thats crazy!
Depending on your news feed that will get huge over time, and if you try get a back feed of existing posts, thats even crazier, my upstream feeds me over FORTY THOUSAND text newsgroups. thats unrealistic to
How much of these group are active? Or how many post a day on average you get?
feed into imap, just advertise your news server, or if you dont have one, set up inn on a spare machine, hell for a couple thousand users,
We looked at inn, it is, to be blunt, a diabolical mess , the access file is nightmare, it no limit user concurrency or daily limit by default without write external code, if inn is typical, is no wonder usenet is not as popular this days.
a junk box (ie: even a 10yo 32bit desktop PC with half a gig of ram will run nicely) starting out you wont need terabytes of disk space,
We have plenty them lying around, so maybe this be better if we find better news server software.
but heck, a 1TB sata drive is cheap enough so if it fails its no bother, a 1TB scsi, might be a different story LOL (but of course is much much more reliable than sata).
There are a few places around who will give you a free feed if you dont have one, and if you get stuck ask me off list, I get one off someone who used to be on this list, though he's likely forgotten that I do as it was a couple years ago he connected us up :-)
We have a feeder when we ready, they go to feed our imap, so should feed our own news server, thank you anyway
On 09/12/2014 06:33 AM, Edwardo Garcia wrote:
Depending on your news feed that will get huge over time, and if you try get a back feed of existing posts, thats even crazier, my upstream feeds me over FORTY THOUSAND text newsgroups. thats unrealistic to
How much of these group are active? Or how many post a day on average you get?
I realize you weren't asking me, but just to give you another data point, my server receives about 23,000 articles per day. This is nearly all groups minus the binaries.
feed into imap, just advertise your news server, or if you dont have one, set up inn on a spare machine, hell for a couple thousand users,
We looked at inn, it is, to be blunt, a diabolical mess , the access file is nightmare, it no limit user concurrency or daily limit by default without write external code, if inn is typical, is no wonder usenet is not as popular this days.
With respect, this a load of crap. I was a commercial INN admin for many years, and I run it on my own network to this day. It's a fine piece of software, does its job very well, is easy to manage, and generally gives no guff.
(Of course this is coming from the perspective of someone who ran C-news, and before that, B-news. B was mostly shell scripts!)
Just try not to look at it as a mail server, because it isn't, and you'll be fine with INN.
And for the record, Usenet is "not as popular these days" because most of the current inhabitants of the Internet are drooling morons who think the Internet and the WWW are the same thing, and that it's all one big TV. They'd never understand the concepts of Usenet in the first place.
-Dave-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ/3 New Kensington, PA
On 9/13/14, Dave McGuire mcguire@neurotica.com wrote:
On 09/12/2014 06:33 AM, Edwardo Garcia wrote:
We looked at inn, it is, to be blunt, a diabolical mess , the access file is nightmare, it no limit user concurrency or daily limit by default without write external code, if inn is typical, is no wonder usenet is not as popular this days.
With respect, this a load of crap. I was a commercial INN admin for many years, and I run it on my own network to this day. It's a fine piece of software, does its job very well, is easy to manage, and generally gives no guff.
it does what it does well, yes, but it doesnt do much without writing a bunch of perl extras, like posting filters to anonymize users by stripping out header stuff.
Also, inn will not limit user concurrency unless you use an external auth hook you have to write such as in perl, it can not do it out of the box, and it has no way of limiting each host to X amount of transferred data per day.
And for the record, Usenet is "not as popular these days" because most of the current inhabitants of the Internet are drooling morons who think the Internet and the WWW are the same thing, and that it's all one big TV. They'd never understand the concepts of Usenet in the first place.
heh, most kids of today would be shocked to learn their precious P2P, mailing lists, and forums etc grew out from Usenet. only the die hards use it for binaries these days
strange though, since the downloaders are truly anonymous, buit do risk higher chance of missed bits, dont have to share whilst d/loading, and only the senders may leave a trail and at slight risk of being found out.
On 9/13/14, Dave McGuire mcguire@neurotica.com wrote:
On 09/12/2014 06:33 AM, Edwardo Garcia wrote:
Depending on your news feed that will get huge over time, and if you try get a back feed of existing posts, thats even crazier, my upstream feeds me over FORTY THOUSAND text newsgroups. thats unrealistic to
How much of these group are active? Or how many post a day on average you get?
I realize you weren't asking me, but just to give you another data point, my server receives about 23,000 articles per day. This is nearly all groups minus the binaries.
feed into imap, just advertise your news server, or if you dont have one, set up inn on a spare machine, hell for a couple thousand users,
We looked at inn, it is, to be blunt, a diabolical mess , the access file is nightmare, it no limit user concurrency or daily limit by default without write external code, if inn is typical, is no wonder usenet is not as popular this days.
With respect, this a load of crap. I was a commercial INN admin for many years, and I run it on my own network to this day. It's a fine piece of software, does its job very well, is easy to manage, and generally gives no guff.
Sorry, but Nick was right, it is severe pain to get to do what we would need, I installed dnews, and oh my god, it is so much cleaner and configurable out the box that it took 10 minutes to configure to be anonymous for users but still logs so we know who does what, and it access file is as simple as postfix! unlike inn, wow so much what they say, chalk and cheese, dnews is a dream, I do like its pull feature for only group we want, running now since yesterday, some staff use, we notify select users who want usenet to use, if everybody happy in one week we ask for license, even if need pay, much cleaner, better, and no stress set up
(Of course this is coming from the perspective of someone who ran C-news, and before that, B-news. B was mostly shell scripts!)
Just try not to look at it as a mail server, because it isn't, and you'll be fine with INN.
I think this might be true if you want allow world access and not care who posts where or how or how many.
And for the record, Usenet is "not as popular these days" because most of the current inhabitants of the Internet are drooling morons who think the Internet and the WWW are the same thing, and that it's all one big TV. They'd never understand the concepts of Usenet in the first place.
Binaries still very popular, maybe for reason nick say
On 13 Sep 2014, at 20:37 , Edwardo Garcia wdgarc88@gmail.com wrote:
Sorry, but Nick was right, it is severe pain to get to do what we would need, I installed dnews, and oh my god, it is so much cleaner and configurable out the box that it took 10 minutes to configure to be anonymous for users but still logs so we know who does what, and it access file is as simple as postfix! unlike inn, wow so much what they say, chalk and cheese, dnews is a dream, I do like its pull feature for only group we want, running now since yesterday, some staff use, we notify select users who want usenet to use, if everybody happy in one week we ask for license, even if need pay, much cleaner, better, and no stress set up
Interesting. Where do you get your newsfeed from?
I’ve often though about setting up USENET (sans binaries, natch) but just assumed that getting a feed was pretty much impossible.
-- 'Yes, but humans are more important than animals,' said Brutha. 'This is a point of view often expressed by humans,' said Om. (Small Gods)
See Private
On 9/14/14, LuKreme kremels@kreme.com wrote:
On 13 Sep 2014, at 20:37 , Edwardo Garcia wdgarc88@gmail.com wrote:
Sorry, but Nick was right, it is severe pain to get to do what we would need, I installed dnews, and oh my god, it is so much cleaner and configurable out the box that it took 10 minutes to configure to be anonymous for users but still logs so we know who does what, and it access file is as simple as postfix! unlike inn, wow so much what they say, chalk and cheese, dnews is a dream, I do like its pull feature for only group we want, running now since yesterday, some staff use, we notify select users who want usenet to use, if everybody happy in one week we ask for license, even if need pay, much cleaner, better, and no stress set up
Interesting. Where do you get your newsfeed from?
I've often though about setting up USENET (sans binaries, natch) but just assumed that getting a feed was pretty much impossible.
-- 'Yes, but humans are more important than animals,' said Brutha. 'This is a point of view often expressed by humans,' said Om. (Small Gods)
On 9/12/14, Edwardo Garcia wdgarc88@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/12/14, Nick Edwards nick.z.edwards@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/11/14, Edwardo Garcia wdgarc88@gmail.com wrote:
Halo,
Has anyones had experiences with feeding usenet into imap folders, we like to have some group for all user, any problem with message limit? We only want the text newsgroups?
Thats crazy!
Depending on your news feed that will get huge over time, and if you try get a back feed of existing posts, thats even crazier, my upstream feeds me over FORTY THOUSAND text newsgroups. thats unrealistic to
How much of these group are active? Or how many post a day on average you get?
feed into imap, just advertise your news server, or if you dont have one, set up inn on a spare machine, hell for a couple thousand users,
We looked at inn, it is, to be blunt, a diabolical mess , the access file is nightmare, it no limit user concurrency or daily limit by default without write external code, if inn is typical, is no wonder usenet is not as popular this days.
DNews I've heard since its unsupported now, they are. or have, given away free keys to some who've asked. We use it, its really powerful, awesome of system resource niceness, and so easy to configure even a child could do it (helolo Benny LOL), try download an have a go, yo can try-before-you-buy with anyway, and I think it still runs forever, not crippled if you dont get a key, it just puts messages into posts about it after a while.
DNews even has a mail gateway which would be a sinch to add to imap, but again, thats crazy, dont do it, unless you only want a handful of groups.
Oh benefit of DNews is, in "pull mode" it only gets what groups are read, so you dont need to get the full 40K groups if you dont want them, if you want a full feed, I suggest setting it up as ihave, and use suck2 to populate your news server with all articles of all groups your upstream has, but be careful of bandwith requirements for that, and I suggest you suspend your ihave until that is completed.
This really off topic now, so if you need to talk more about it, contact me offlist so we dont upset the crybabies.
On 9/13/14, Nick Edwards nick.z.edwards@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/12/14, Edwardo Garcia wdgarc88@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/12/14, Nick Edwards nick.z.edwards@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/11/14, Edwardo Garcia wdgarc88@gmail.com wrote:
Halo,
Has anyones had experiences with feeding usenet into imap folders, we like to have some group for all user, any problem with message limit? We only want the text newsgroups?
Thats crazy!
Depending on your news feed that will get huge over time, and if you try get a back feed of existing posts, thats even crazier, my upstream feeds me over FORTY THOUSAND text newsgroups. thats unrealistic to
How much of these group are active? Or how many post a day on average you get?
feed into imap, just advertise your news server, or if you dont have one, set up inn on a spare machine, hell for a couple thousand users,
We looked at inn, it is, to be blunt, a diabolical mess , the access file is nightmare, it no limit user concurrency or daily limit by default without write external code, if inn is typical, is no wonder usenet is not as popular this days.
DNews I've heard since its unsupported now, they are. or have, given away free keys to some who've asked. We use it, its really powerful, awesome of system resource niceness, and so easy to configure even a child could do it (helolo Benny LOL), try download an have a go, yo can try-before-you-buy with anyway, and I think it still runs forever, not crippled if you dont get a key, it just puts messages into posts about it after a while.
oh wow, as I say to Dave, yes you are right, total worlds apart, very happy now, will use dnews and forget imap intergration, even though FAQ say it easy to do, no point now, upstream is happy for us to pull a feed from rather than direct feed our imap.
DNews even has a mail gateway which would be a sinch to add to imap, but again, thats crazy, dont do it, unless you only want a handful of groups.
Oh benefit of DNews is, in "pull mode" it only gets what groups are read, so you dont need to get the full 40K groups if you dont want them, if you want a full feed, I suggest setting it up as ihave, and use suck2 to populate your news server with all articles of all groups your upstream has, but be careful of bandwith requirements for that, and I suggest you suspend your ihave until that is completed.
This really off topic now, so if you need to talk more about it, contact me offlist so we dont upset the crybabies.
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 09:21:16PM +1000, Edwardo Garcia wrote:
Has anyones had experiences with feeding usenet into imap folders, we like to have some group for all user, any problem with message limit? We only want the text newsgroups?
I won't do that. While Usenet and e-mail _do_ look reasonably similiar, they aren't. In 20 years of usenet, I have not seen a single gateway between e-mail and Usenet that worked acceptably. Challenges like the per-user "read" status, unique message-IDs and crosspostings are excruciatingly hard to solve.
Running INN is much easier.
Greetings Marc
--
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header Leimen, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402 Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600420
participants (5)
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Dave McGuire
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Edwardo Garcia
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LuKreme
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Marc Haber
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Nick Edwards