immediate delete of mails

tselmeci＠486.hu

9 Oct 2018 9 Oct '18

10:04 a.m.

Hello all!

I've got a home server running on an ARM Cortex-A7 with my custom Linux distribution. It's also responsible for handling incoming and outgoing mails. The SMTP server is OpenSMTPD-6.0.3p1. I'm using Dovecot-2.3.2.1 to export the mails (mailbox storage format) using IMAP.

My old server used to have Dovecot-1.2.0 and honestly, it was absolutely sufficient for me. However, I've decided to use the latest Dovecot on my new system, since all other software components of my system are up-to-date.

With my simple IMAP-configuration Dovecot is running fine, expect for one thing: when I press DEL in the mailer client, the mails don't get deleted. They simple reside in the mailbox file. It annoys me a lot, since the mailer client regularly makes them appear with a different (grey) color.

The mailer client is Sylpheed and I'm not willing to use another one. I've already tried Thunderbird, Evolution, Claws-mail, Sylpheed, and Sylpheed suits best to my needs.

The funny thing is that with the same Sylpheed the old Dovecot was willing to physically remove the mails from mailbox file, but the new Dovecot isn't willing to do so.

I've tried to search for an appropriate configuration option, but didn't find what I exactly need. Auto expunge, command-line expunging are nice, but I do want immediate mail delete from mailbox file when I press DEL in the mailer client. I know this can be dangerous and degrades performance.

Is there any option to configure Dovecot to behave like this? If it needs to recompile Dovecot I'm also in ;)

Thanks a lot!

dovecot -n output:

# 2.3.2.1 (0719df592): /etc/dovecot.conf # OS: Linux 4.18.9 armv7l
# Hostname: 486 auth_mechanisms = plain login base_dir = /var/run/dovecot/ default_client_limit = 30 default_process_limit = 10 disable_plaintext_auth = no listen = * log_path = /var/log/dovecot.txt mail_gid = 0 mail_location = mbox:~/mail:INBOX=/var/spool/mail/%u mail_uid = 0 namespace { hidden = no inbox = yes list = yes location = mailbox { auto = create special_use = \Drafts name = Drafts } mailbox { auto = create special_use = \Sent name = Sent } mailbox { auto = create special_use = \Trash name = Trash } prefix = type = private name = inbox } passdb { driver = passwd } passdb { driver = shadow } protocols = imap service replication-notify-fifo { name = aggregator } service anvil-auth-penalty { name = anvil } service auth-worker { name = auth-worker } service auth-client { name = auth } service config { name = config } service dict-async { name = dict-async } service dict { name = dict } service login/proxy-notify { name = director } service dns-client { name = dns_client } service doveadm-server { name = doveadm } service imap-hibernate { name = imap-hibernate } service imap { name = imap-login } service imap-urlauth { name = imap-urlauth-login } service imap-urlauth-worker { name = imap-urlauth-worker } service token-login/imap-urlauth { name = imap-urlauth } service imap-master { name = imap } service indexer-worker { name = indexer-worker } service indexer { name = indexer } service ipc { name = ipc } service lmtp { name = lmtp } service log-errors { name = log } service old-stats-mail { name = old-stats } service pop3 { name = pop3-login } service login/pop3 { name = pop3 } service replicator-doveadm { name = replicator } service stats-reader { name = stats } service submission { name = submission-login } service login/submission { name = submission } ssl = no submission_max_mail_size = 0 userdb { driver = passwd } verbose_proctitle = yes

-- Selmeci, Tamás http://www.486.hu/

Show replies by date

Gerald Galster

9 Oct 9 Oct

10:31 a.m.

Hello,

most imap clients don't delete mails immediately, instead they are marked as deleted and expunged a few days or weeks later.

From Sylpheed docs / Interface tab: https://sylpheed.sraoss.jp/doc/manual/en/sylpheed-8.html

• If Execute immediately when moving or deleting messages is not selected, a new button appears in the button bar marked Execute. When deleting or moving messages, they are first marked as deleted or moved but Sylpheed does not move or delete them until you press the Execute button (or the Execute entry of the Tools menu).

You could check if the filename of a deleted email has changed in your maildir.

https://wiki2.dovecot.org/MailboxFormat/Maildir -> Filename examples Look for T = trashed

This is old and may have been fixed: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=208139

Regards, Gerald

...

Am 09.10.2018 um 09:04 schrieb tselmeci@486.hu:

Hello all!

I've got a home server running on an ARM Cortex-A7 with my custom Linux distribution. It's also responsible for handling incoming and outgoing mails. The SMTP server is OpenSMTPD-6.0.3p1. I'm using Dovecot-2.3.2.1 to export the mails (mailbox storage format) using IMAP.

My old server used to have Dovecot-1.2.0 and honestly, it was absolutely sufficient for me. However, I've decided to use the latest Dovecot on my new system, since all other software components of my system are up-to-date.

With my simple IMAP-configuration Dovecot is running fine, expect for one thing: when I press DEL in the mailer client, the mails don't get deleted. They simple reside in the mailbox file. It annoys me a lot, since the mailer client regularly makes them appear with a different (grey) color.

The mailer client is Sylpheed and I'm not willing to use another one. I've already tried Thunderbird, Evolution, Claws-mail, Sylpheed, and Sylpheed suits best to my needs.

The funny thing is that with the same Sylpheed the old Dovecot was willing to physically remove the mails from mailbox file, but the new Dovecot isn't willing to do so.

I've tried to search for an appropriate configuration option, but didn't find what I exactly need. Auto expunge, command-line expunging are nice, but I do want immediate mail delete from mailbox file when I press DEL in the mailer client. I know this can be dangerous and degrades performance.

Is there any option to configure Dovecot to behave like this? If it needs to recompile Dovecot I'm also in ;)

Thanks a lot!

dovecot -n output:

# 2.3.2.1 (0719df592): /etc/dovecot.conf # OS: Linux 4.18.9 armv7l
# Hostname: 486 auth_mechanisms = plain login base_dir = /var/run/dovecot/ default_client_limit = 30 default_process_limit = 10 disable_plaintext_auth = no listen = * log_path = /var/log/dovecot.txt mail_gid = 0 mail_location = mbox:~/mail:INBOX=/var/spool/mail/%u mail_uid = 0 namespace { hidden = no inbox = yes list = yes location = mailbox { auto = create special_use = \Drafts name = Drafts } mailbox { auto = create special_use = \Sent name = Sent } mailbox { auto = create special_use = \Trash name = Trash } prefix = type = private name = inbox } passdb { driver = passwd } passdb { driver = shadow } protocols = imap service replication-notify-fifo { name = aggregator } service anvil-auth-penalty { name = anvil } service auth-worker { name = auth-worker } service auth-client { name = auth } service config { name = config } service dict-async { name = dict-async } service dict { name = dict } service login/proxy-notify { name = director } service dns-client { name = dns_client } service doveadm-server { name = doveadm } service imap-hibernate { name = imap-hibernate } service imap { name = imap-login } service imap-urlauth { name = imap-urlauth-login } service imap-urlauth-worker { name = imap-urlauth-worker } service token-login/imap-urlauth { name = imap-urlauth } service imap-master { name = imap } service indexer-worker { name = indexer-worker } service indexer { name = indexer } service ipc { name = ipc } service lmtp { name = lmtp } service log-errors { name = log } service old-stats-mail { name = old-stats } service pop3 { name = pop3-login } service login/pop3 { name = pop3 } service replicator-doveadm { name = replicator } service stats-reader { name = stats } service submission { name = submission-login } service login/submission { name = submission } ssl = no submission_max_mail_size = 0 userdb { driver = passwd } verbose_proctitle = yes

-- Selmeci, Tamás http://www.486.hu/

tselmeci＠486.hu

10:54 a.m.

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 09:31:36 +0200 Gerald Galster list+dovecot@gcore.biz wrote:

...

most imap clients don't delete mails immediately, instead they are marked as deleted and expunged a few days or weeks later.

From Sylpheed docs / Interface tab: https://sylpheed.sraoss.jp/doc/manual/en/sylpheed-8.html

• If Execute immediately when moving or deleting messages is not selected, a new button appears in the button bar marked Execute. When deleting or moving messages, they are first marked as deleted or moved but Sylpheed does not move or delete them until you press the Execute button (or the Execute entry of the Tools menu).

This setting is enabled in my Slypheed and mails don't disappear. Even if I switch this off and try to manually execute the expunge operation, the mails still remain.

...

You could check if the filename of a deleted email has changed in your maildir.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, Dovecot is using mbox files on my machine.

...

This is old and may have been fixed: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=208139

I don't think it's relevant, since with the very same Sylpheed an older Dovecot (1.x) could erase the unneeded mails. Perhaps some file permission issue on my server...?

Regards,

Selmeci Tamás http://www.486.hu/

Reio Remma

11:09 a.m.

On 09/10/2018 10:54, tselmeci@486.hu wrote:

...

I don't think it's relevant, since with the very same Sylpheed an older Dovecot (1.x) could erase the unneeded mails. Perhaps some file permission issue on my server...?

Do you see anything in Dovecot logs? It should definitely log if there were permission issues.

Good luck, Reio

tselmeci＠486.hu

11:41 a.m.

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 11:09:53 +0300 Reio Remma reio@mrstuudio.ee wrote:

...

Do you see anything in Dovecot logs? It should definitely log if there were permission issues.

With 'mail_debug=yes' I see nothing relevant. Just something like this when I want to expunge deleted mails:

Oct 09 10:40:01 imap(tselmeci)<15816>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25188 because: header stream Oct 09 10:40:01 imap(tselmeci)<15816>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25189 because: header stream Oct 09 10:40:01 imap(tselmeci)<15816>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25190 because: header stream Oct 09 10:40:01 imap(tselmeci)<15816>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25191 because: header stream Oct 09 10:40:01 imap(tselmeci)<15816>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25192 because: header stream Oct 09 10:40:01 imap(tselmeci)<15816>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25147 because: full mail Oct 09 10:40:04 imap(tselmeci)<15816>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25192 because: full mail Oct 09 10:40:18 imap(tselmeci)<15816>: Debug: dovecot: Mailbox opened because: SELECT

Selmeci Tamás http://www.486.hu/

Aki Tuomi

11:43 a.m.

On 09.10.2018 11:41, tselmeci@486.hu wrote:

...

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 11:09:53 +0300 Reio Remma reio@mrstuudio.ee wrote:

...
Do you see anything in Dovecot logs? It should definitely log if there were permission issues. With 'mail_debug=yes' I see nothing relevant. Just something like this when I want to expunge deleted mails:

Oct 09 10:40:01 imap(tselmeci)<15816>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25188 because: header stream Oct 09 10:40:01 imap(tselmeci)<15816>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25189 because: header stream Oct 09 10:40:01 imap(tselmeci)<15816>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25190 because: header stream Oct 09 10:40:01 imap(tselmeci)<15816>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25191 because: header stream Oct 09 10:40:01 imap(tselmeci)<15816>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25192 because: header stream Oct 09 10:40:01 imap(tselmeci)<15816>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25147 because: full mail Oct 09 10:40:04 imap(tselmeci)<15816>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25192 because: full mail Oct 09 10:40:18 imap(tselmeci)<15816>: Debug: dovecot: Mailbox opened because: SELECT

Can you enable mail_log plugin as well?

Aki

Tamas Selmeci

11:56 a.m.

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 11:43:30 +0300 Aki Tuomi aki.tuomi@open-xchange.com wrote:

...

Can you enable mail_log plugin as well?

Sure.

I've sent myself a mail from another account, opened it, deleted and then tried to expunge. Here's the log output:

Oct 09 10:53:42 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: INBOX: Mailbox opened because: SELECT Oct 09 10:53:42 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25196 because: virtual size (Mail not cached, highest cached seq=2034 uid=25195: reset_id=1539075017) Oct 09 10:53:42 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25196 because: header stream Oct 09 10:53:42 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25196 because: full mail Oct 09 10:53:42 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: INBOX: Mailbox opened because: SELECT Oct 09 10:53:42 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25196 because: header stream Oct 09 10:53:55 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25196 because: full mail Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Trash: Mailbox opened because: UID COPY Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25117 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25130 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25131 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25132 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25133 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25135 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25136 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25137 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25138 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25139 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25140 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25141 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25142 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25143 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25144 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25145 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25146 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25148 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25149 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25150 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25151 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25152 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25153 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25154 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25155 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25156 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25157 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25158 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25159 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25161 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25163 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25164 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25165 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25167 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25168 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25169 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25170 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25171 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25172 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25173 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25174 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25176 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25177 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25179 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25180 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25181 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25182 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25183 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25184 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25185 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25186 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25187 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25188 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25189 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25190 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25191 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25192 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25193 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25194 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25195 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25196 because: copying Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16792, msgid=ADR430000109866221000017A47738F01EE8B0F10D7604B17454@FOGAZ.HU, size=15426 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16793, msgid=f507714ac47c8625d204c7720c54bf0a@www.mitsubishiklub.hu, size=1927 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16794, msgid=3eba68ab055d5c13fe45f9e7ffb279cf@www.mitsubishiklub.hu, size=2527 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16795, msgid=yEnfUEfrNXydu2rapkpFYA.0@notifications.google.com, size=16289 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16796, msgid=1538464235.8943.94.camel@piholding.hu, size=5543 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16797, msgid=CANvBs1kkcs4ME3DF5gHv-GeGog9DWvNFMG00zWmLMQgmMcOt5w@mail.gmail.com, size=4310 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16798, msgid=ADR430000026935062010050568735011EE8B1C6BB20EC6B09D9@KER.ELMUEMASZ.HU, size=507790 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16799, msgid=ADR430000026935132010050568735011EE8B1C6C018A503A9D9@KER.ELMUEMASZ.HU, size=506412 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16800, msgid=20181002155033.7cf12fd54aac9c584f1f8505@gmail.com, size=8541 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16801, msgid=1091995075.1107207.1538491597237.JavaMail.jboss@dnetapp1.dbrt.hu, size=8151 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16802, msgid=CAAVOpp9yu6A4AL+Od2F9P0P-Z-EsRAapCgGzHnxhP+9M3sQ49w@mail.gmail.com, size=16890 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16803, msgid=CAG3x86y7jTLgzWe2q3rc8=_fDa7o3bZme47A-7_pwnSx=cFZdA@mail.gmail.com, size=5964 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16804, msgid=CAG3x86ybQAnU+-p6xNNcBZ1=-__cRvrBx7FnFpqSMGj-gjS=0Q@mail.gmail.com, size=4471 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16805, msgid=CAG3x86wmHocQ7j_J7tzPJBfB72qvHpGHD5rJhUjCKjqdfcb-7w@mail.gmail.com, size=4787 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16806, msgid=448426493.11797461538501099186.JavaMail.jboss@krea-app4.gate, size=8798 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16807, msgid=E1g7cqI-0004uY-Ve@mail.xls.hu, size=8100 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16808, msgid=f740401fd396164a3a330ba94f3df0ce@www.mitsubishiklub.hu, size=2507 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16809, msgid=CAAVOpp_ZEV=r6=aypRQuGkkK2wvoXVHXeSU3OYgRJ74PFRzmRg@mail.gmail.com, size=15718 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16810, msgid=CAAVOpp8Vwh82tn6tOnKraC532wVChcfAn3xHy7jqZ2+OOVeMrw@mail.gmail.com, size=15914 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16811, msgid=CADWu5_fUr3Q6MsybvmJ4aqyNaHKD5N=Nqh4kwjvqRNmeDDXYig@mail.gmail.com, size=24378 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16812, msgid=449986777.1595428.1538632740550.JavaMail.app@lor1-app1492.prod.linkedin.com, size=26181 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16813, msgid=CALk4ZzK2YhM=uDf+Sjs8RKQfzn-MBmjq0X+FWE0VQ82ug6qboA@mail.gmail.com, size=32009 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16814, msgid=1214733694.2622142.1538654733516.JavaMail.app@lva1-app3088.prod.linkedin.com, size=31404 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16815, msgid=CALk4ZzJNOnrv94_Q3iYOvQ6-2Jx8T1_sYBxOHzvAs78HwH-3HA@mail.gmail.com, size=35317 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16816, msgid=1261970271.2821246.1538670070841.JavaMail.app@lva1-app3088.prod.linkedin.com, size=19544 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16817, msgid=12404f7348d5def437c597abe5fcdc2b@www.mitsubishiklub.hu, size=2527 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16818, msgid=E1g8D5e-0001Xw-OY@gyor-trans3.jofogas, size=15962 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16819, msgid=CALk4ZzKGpbyDCBrBbdQiYV-wYzthYeP7VvdJEAt3PUHumH3ixw@mail.gmail.com, size=20375 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16820, msgid=CAHvQoftQX1wkbAFuNqPzb7k0iHbRH3ryqA5=0Um1J9ac-WgVAA@mail.gmail.com, size=22930 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16821, msgid=CAAVOpp_yiSx7RuYpgCEQVzbK976pZyUPAOXNpg+8jTgiJ6h2aA@mail.gmail.com, size=528223 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16822, msgid=7088b22d99a176ded0dea1337eadc37c@www.mitsubishiklub.hu, size=2527 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16823, msgid=2016756062.10046531.1538804254974.JavaMail.app@lor1-app15474.prod.linkedin.com, size=31833 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16824, msgid=2027874900.1259693.1538837245522.JavaMail.jboss@dnetapp1.dbrt.hu, size=5791 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16825, msgid=ab92377811bff557b1240fd2714c497b@www.vatera.hu, size=8817 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16826, msgid=20181007174216.31616aa58992d4f3eaf36f00@gmail.com, size=2774 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16827, msgid=4a7cb9dbb7c7a134d7e618b6bc8c7ad4@www.mitsubishiklub.hu, size=2527 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16828, msgid=9de75cda8ee7d16c48dc54a42b3ff2ed@localhost.localdomain, size=20173 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16829, msgid=aeda7e8e6da9582b21f55e73a665e4c9@localhost.localdomain, size=727 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16830, msgid=re7o68swfcu7pha3j52wnrjy.1538962996226@email.android.com, size=5885 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16831, msgid=e9c7b57aa88e5a3f1ba4d26d487deb94@www.hasznaltauto.hu, size=19753 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16832, msgid=7aplhcb06q79nk5kr9rquoam.1538977630551@email.android.com, size=6233 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16833, msgid=1233560738.4252710.1538982798971.JavaMail.app@lva1-app3088.prod.linkedin.com, size=33066 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16834, msgid=1615998939.5574719.1538993149003.JavaMail.app@lor1-app15825.prod.linkedin.com, size=20143 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16835, msgid=851c0c3f-d945-2c1a-4f0b-89d2a8f66685@bodakata.hu, size=4091 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16836, msgid=1490177449.6495293.1539003747924.JavaMail.app@lva1-app4551.prod.linkedin.com, size=37481 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16837, msgid=CAC=iB0uroWiUmUH4vQYq4u+08V4Xp_gZTVfbtgYoDESvsZfpoA@mail.gmail.com, size=4724 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16838, msgid=1837250199.6623426.1539012623022.JavaMail.app@lva1-app4551.prod.linkedin.com, size=22462 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16839, msgid=f3d4a9a2703f817ec2539f99cec71356@www.mitsubishiklub.hu, size=2528 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16840, msgid=f34423c125923ca1ec90e2a90f21ecb2@swift.generated, size=38037 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16841, msgid=1545184383.4997970.1539064694668.JavaMail.app@lva1-app3088.prod.linkedin.com, size=28700 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16842, msgid=mailman.0.1539064814.26406.dovecot@dovecot.org, size=2290 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16843, msgid=mailman.0.1539064854.26423.dovecot@dovecot.org, size=2332 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16844, msgid=E1g9m2b-0006Xu-O3@mail.xls.hu, size=8524 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16845, msgid=20181009090407.33632e3226e4563b8a5d223a@486.hu, size=6223 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16846, msgid=13C2581E-8172-4251-8EE0-AF33DDA92147@gcore.biz, size=7705 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16847, msgid=20181009095449.5f6d9f5231bf1c66761a744e@486.hu, size=3932 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16848, msgid=9449fc34-79cb-47c0-a684-308223bdfe51@mrstuudio.ee, size=3899 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16849, msgid=20181009104136.66e65fb9654485bb8974abfe@486.hu, size=4044 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16850, msgid=41fc97db-9e87-4aae-587e-60ff7b2d219a@open-xchange.com, size=5320 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16851, msgid=41fc97db-9e87-4aae-587e-60ff7b2d219a@open-xchange.com, size=6527 Oct 09 10:54:00 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: copy from INBOX: box=Trash, uid=16852, msgid=1539075212.8943.176.camel@piholding.hu, size=1626 Oct 09 10:54:01 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25196 because: header Message-ID (Mail not cached, highest cached seq=2034 uid=25195: reset_id=1539075017) Oct 09 10:54:01 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Debug: Mailbox INBOX: Opened mail UID=25196 because: mail stream Oct 09 10:54:01 imap(tselmeci)<18236>: Info: delete: box=INBOX, uid=25196, msgid=1539075212.8943.176.camel@piholding.hu, size=1626

-- Selmeci Tamás http://www.486.hu/

Tamas Selmeci

12:19 p.m.

When I press DEL on a mail, the file /home/tselmeci/mail/Trash increases and the deleted mail is appended to it. But it doesn't disappear from /var/spool/mail/tselmeci. Once I expunge, /home/tselmeci/mail/Trash becomes empty but the original mail is still present in /var/spool/mail/tselmeci.

Maybe the SMTP server holds a write lock on the spool file thus preventing Dovecot from erasing the mail?

Selmeci Tamás http://www.486.hu/

Sami Ketola

1:08 p.m.

...

On 9 Oct 2018, at 11.19, Tamas Selmeci tselmeci@486.hu wrote:

When I press DEL on a mail, the file /home/tselmeci/mail/Trash increases and the deleted mail is appended to it. But it doesn't disappear from /var/spool/mail/tselmeci. Once I expunge, /home/tselmeci/mail/Trash becomes empty but the original mail is still present in /var/spool/mail/tselmeci.

Maybe the SMTP server holds a write lock on the spool file thus preventing Dovecot from erasing the mail?

How do you deliver then mails to the server?

also mbox is very unoptimised mailbox format for this. Each time mail is deleted from mbox mailbox the whole mbox while needs to be rewritten to remove the mail.

Sami

Selmeci Tamás

4:30 p.m.

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 12:08:00 +0200 Sami Ketola sami.ketola@dovecot.fi wrote:

...

How do you deliver then mails to the server?

also mbox is very unoptimised mailbox format for this. Each time mail is deleted from mbox mailbox the whole mbox while needs to be rewritten to remove the mail.

OpenSMTPD and Dovecot run on the same machine. OpenSMTPD receives incoming mails and stores them in a mailbox (/var/spool/mail/user). Dovecot then fetches mails from this mailbox file.

Mailbox file is indeed very unoptimal, but at this moment I'm more curious about the reason why I can't expunge mails... perhaps it'd simpler with maildir, where it just means a simple file deletion.

Selmeci Tamás http://www.486.hu/

Steffen Kaiser

4:44 p.m.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018, Selmeci Tamás wrote:

...

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 12:08:00 +0200 Sami Ketola sami.ketola@dovecot.fi wrote:

...
How do you deliver then mails to the server?

also mbox is very unoptimised mailbox format for this. Each time mail is deleted from mbox mailbox the whole mbox while needs to be rewritten to remove the mail.

OpenSMTPD and Dovecot run on the same machine. OpenSMTPD receives incoming mails and stores them in a mailbox (/var/spool/mail/user). Dovecot then fetches mails from this mailbox file.

Mailbox file is indeed very unoptimal, but at this moment I'm more curious about the reason why I can't expunge mails... perhaps it'd simpler with maildir, where it just means a simple file deletion.

try out pure IMAP via telnet:

https://wiki2.dovecot.org/TestInstallation?highlight=(telnet)#Check_out_some...

telnet server 143 1 login user pwd 2 select inbox 4 CREATE Trash 5 COPY 1 Trash 3 STORE 1 +FLAGS \Deleted 4 EXPUNGE

Try with another mailbox,

7 select Trash 3 STORE 1 +FLAGS \Deleted 4 EXPUNGE

Steffen Kaiser -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1

iQEVAwUBW7ywrsQnQQNheMxiAQJKNgf/SqbCxUHv7Ga6COtUVeFxv51e5YGBJzrE IDjD1bG/DAweaYDkWG+sJvwihpcYU7LRIX7nGGx7LiCOuFatWoQ2r/yIh1FSnMny SBjRdaDP/V+JaM3t+wAQ8AS8ObLi3RSy5GXrSbQvxrXzillVC6lKl37jQ4vbxevm MEazFDFubV9OSVs1n8oAUdKTvQVFL19xc2PYn8jkxXZMtED8a9Z7EAlwXFIbCQ/M WMkRE2G2WFy5sxchEgxDdrXwHnr7fe6mIEm1fyp+1ed6NytDNEwXDCryh0PmR5p5 XT95amjqRlCc3YVB+Q3R8W5AcrG9/bWfaPTglA3o3MBR8iH7xkbQPg== =znSD -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Tamas Selmeci

10 Oct 10 Oct

9:34 a.m.

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 15:44:14 +0200 (CEST) Steffen Kaiser skdovecot@inf.h-brs.de wrote:

...

try out pure IMAP via telnet:

telnet server 143 1 login user pwd 2 select inbox 4 CREATE Trash 5 COPY 1 Trash 3 STORE 1 +FLAGS \Deleted 4 EXPUNGE

Here's the output:

OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 SASL-IR LOGIN-REFERRALS ID ENABLE IDLE LITERAL+ AUTH=PLAIN AUTH=LOGIN] Dovecot ready. 1 login 1 BAD Error in IMAP command received by server. 1 login user pass 1 OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 SASL-IR LOGIN-REFERRALS ID ENABLE IDLE SORT SORT=DISPLAY THREAD=REFERENCES THREAD=REFS THREAD=ORDEREDSUBJECT MULTIAPPEND URL-PARTIAL CATENATE UNSELECT CHILDREN NAMESPACE UIDPLUS LIST-EXTENDED I18NLEVEL=1 CONDSTORE QRESYNC ESEARCH ESORT SEARCHRES WITHIN CONTEXT=SEARCH LIST-STATUS BINARY MOVE SNIPPET=FUZZY LITERAL+ NOTIFY SPECIAL-USE] Logged in 2 select inbox
FLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Draft $MDNSent $Forwarded $label1 $Labelimportant receipt-handled NonJunk $label5 $label2 $label3 $label4 $has_cal)
OK [PERMANENTFLAGS ()] Read-only mailbox.
1995 EXISTS
0 RECENT
OK [UNSEEN 1971] First unseen.
OK [UIDVALIDITY 1250421210] UIDs valid
OK [UIDNEXT 25219] Predicted next UID 2 OK [READ-ONLY] Select completed (0.016 + 0.000 + 0.017 secs). 4 create Trash 4 NO [ALREADYEXISTS] Mailbox already exists (0.006 + 0.000 + 0.006 secs). 5 Copy 1 Trash 5 OK [COPYUID 1 4067 17246] Copy completed (0.020 + 0.000 + 0.019 secs). 3 STORE 1 +FLAGS \Deleted
1 FETCH (FLAGS (\Deleted \Seen)) 3 OK Store completed (0.003 + 0.000 + 0.002 secs). 4 expunge 4 OK Expunge completed (0.001 + 0.000 secs).

The answer to "2 select inbox" contains "Read-only mailbox", it's suspicious to me...

Selmeci Tamás http://www.486.hu/

Aki Tuomi

9:37 a.m.

On 10.10.2018 09:34, Tamas Selmeci wrote:

...

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 15:44:14 +0200 (CEST) Steffen Kaiser skdovecot@inf.h-brs.de wrote:

...
try out pure IMAP via telnet:

telnet server 143 1 login user pwd 2 select inbox 4 CREATE Trash 5 COPY 1 Trash 3 STORE 1 +FLAGS \Deleted 4 EXPUNGE Here's the output:

OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 SASL-IR LOGIN-REFERRALS ID ENABLE IDLE LITERAL+ AUTH=PLAIN AUTH=LOGIN] Dovecot ready. 1 login 1 BAD Error in IMAP command received by server. 1 login user pass 1 OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 SASL-IR LOGIN-REFERRALS ID ENABLE IDLE SORT SORT=DISPLAY THREAD=REFERENCES THREAD=REFS THREAD=ORDEREDSUBJECT MULTIAPPEND URL-PARTIAL CATENATE UNSELECT CHILDREN NAMESPACE UIDPLUS LIST-EXTENDED I18NLEVEL=1 CONDSTORE QRESYNC ESEARCH ESORT SEARCHRES WITHIN CONTEXT=SEARCH LIST-STATUS BINARY MOVE SNIPPET=FUZZY LITERAL+ NOTIFY SPECIAL-USE] Logged in 2 select inbox

FLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Draft $MDNSent $Forwarded $label1 $Labelimportant receipt-handled NonJunk $label5 $label2 $label3 $label4 $has_cal)

OK [PERMANENTFLAGS ()] Read-only mailbox.

1995 EXISTS

0 RECENT

OK [UNSEEN 1971] First unseen.

OK [UIDVALIDITY 1250421210] UIDs valid

OK [UIDNEXT 25219] Predicted next UID 2 OK [READ-ONLY] Select completed (0.016 + 0.000 + 0.017 secs). 4 create Trash 4 NO [ALREADYEXISTS] Mailbox already exists (0.006 + 0.000 + 0.006 secs). 5 Copy 1 Trash 5 OK [COPYUID 1 4067 17246] Copy completed (0.020 + 0.000 + 0.019 secs). 3 STORE 1 +FLAGS \Deleted

1 FETCH (FLAGS (\Deleted \Seen)) 3 OK Store completed (0.003 + 0.000 + 0.002 secs). 4 expunge 4 OK Expunge completed (0.001 + 0.000 secs).

The answer to "2 select inbox" contains "Read-only mailbox", it's suspicious to me...

doveadm user <yourusername>

check the UID/GID value (or look mail_uid / mail_gid from config)

namei -vl /path/to/your/mbox/file

and check permissions are correct

Aki

Tamas Selmeci

9:48 a.m.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 09:37:03 +0300 Aki Tuomi aki.tuomi@open-xchange.com wrote:

...

doveadm user <yourusername>

check the UID/GID value (or look mail_uid / mail_gid from config)

That's it! I've set /var/spool/mail/user_mbox_file to root accidentally, and haven't thought that Dovecot will try to open it as the logged in user (therefore having no right to change it). After modifying the mbox file's permission the mails can now be deleted.

Many thanks!

Regards,

Selmeci Tamás

Martin Johannes Dauser

9 Oct 9 Oct

5:18 p.m.

New subject: mbox locking

On Tue, 2018-10-09 at 15:30 +0200, Selmeci Tamás wrote:

...

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 12:08:00 +0200 Sami Ketola
...
wrote:

...
How do you deliver then mails to the server?

...

OpenSMTPD and Dovecot run on the same machine. OpenSMTPD receives incoming mails and stores them in a mailbox (/var/spool/mail/user). Dovecot then fetches mails from this mailbox file.

Regarding locks, OpenSMTPD's config should match methods AND order of dovecot's mbox_write_locks.

Methods known by dovecot are dotlock, flock, fcntl and lockf. I couldn't find out, which methods are used by OpenSMTPD.

Dovecot's mbox_read_locks should match too, but dotlock isn't used.

https://wiki.dovecot.org/MailLocation/mbox https://wiki.dovecot.org/MboxLocking https://wiki.dovecot.org/MailboxFormat/mbox

Martin

Aki Tuomi

7:07 p.m.

New subject: mbox locking

...

On 09 October 2018 at 17:18 Martin Johannes Dauser mdauser@cs.sbg.ac.at wrote:

On Tue, 2018-10-09 at 15:30 +0200, Selmeci Tamás wrote:

...
On Tue, 9 Oct 2018 12:08:00 +0200 Sami Ketola
...
wrote:

...
How do you deliver then mails to the server?

...
OpenSMTPD and Dovecot run on the same machine. OpenSMTPD receives incoming mails and stores them in a mailbox (/var/spool/mail/user). Dovecot then fetches mails from this mailbox file.

Regarding locks, OpenSMTPD's config should match methods AND order of dovecot's mbox_write_locks.

Methods known by dovecot are dotlock, flock, fcntl and lockf. I couldn't find out, which methods are used by OpenSMTPD.

Dovecot's mbox_read_locks should match too, but dotlock isn't used.

https://wiki.dovecot.org/MailLocation/mbox https://wiki.dovecot.org/MboxLocking https://wiki.dovecot.org/MailboxFormat/mbox

Martin

You could use LMTP instead of direct delivery, too.

Aki

Martin Johannes Dauser

12:18 p.m.

New subject: cronjob hack to expunge deleted mails of USERNAME

Well, some dirty cronjob could periodically expunge all emails marked as DELETED from a specific user. You would need to exchange USERNAME with the real username in this little bash script. This should work, use at your own risk. (^.~)

#!/bin/bash doveadm mailbox list -u USERNAME | while read -r i do doveadm expunge -u USERNAME mailbox $i DELETED done

Finding the real issue would be best of course.

Martin

2228

Age (days ago)

2229

Last active (days ago)

List overview

16 comments

9 participants

participants (9)

Aki Tuomi
Gerald Galster
Martin Johannes Dauser
Reio Remma
Sami Ketola
Selmeci Tamás
Steffen Kaiser
Tamas Selmeci
tselmeci＠486.hu