Dovecot Oy merger with Open-Xchange AG

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Timo Sirainen

19 Mar 2015 19 Mar '15

12:26 p.m.

Hi all,

Today I can finally announce that Dovecot Oy company has merged with Open-Xchange AG. This helps us to get more Dovecot developers, support people and so on. Most importantly, eventually it should allow me to get back to doing what I like the most: Designing new and interesting stuff for Dovecot and perfecting the old stuff :) OX is a great match to Dovecot going forward. They also really like open source and share our plans for the future. Nothing big will change as a result of this merger: Dovecot will stay Dovecot with its own name and release schedules. We're not going to force OX and Dovecot to be the same product, other than having a somewhat deeper integration between them.

Here are the press release links about it: http://www.dovecot.fi/open-xchange-and-dovecot-announce-merger-to-create-wor... http://www.open-xchange.com/dovecot http://www.open-xchange.com/announcements/18

Show replies by date

Andreas Kasenides

23 Mar 23 Mar

4:08 p.m.

I find it extremely interesting that no one has commented on the merger of Dovecot Oy and Open-Xchange AG as announced by Timo on the 19th. Is this something that was known a long time ago and I missed? OK checked the on-line archive of the mailing list, no comments there - its not my email set-up - LOL. I am usually emotionally (at least) against of open-source projects loosing their independence to large corporations. Possibly due to bad experiences in the past when OSS were driven from Open to Obscure in the process of trying to make money out of them. I have several examples in mind but I will not give names. At least that is the impression I have which might be entirely wrong since when big companies begin to ask for large sums of money we just have to move away due to the small budget. Anyway this is not to about judging the move. Which I cannot do since I have no knowledge whatsover of the Dovecot enterprise internals and the difficulties that come with managing a leading software product. And, secondly, since I am (my employer ie) a non paying customer!! I was just struck by the fact that no one has commented on it.

I wish Dovecot the best in the new environment.

Andreas

On 19/03/15 12:26, Timo Sirainen wrote:

...

Hi all,

Today I can finally announce that Dovecot Oy company has merged with Open-Xchange AG. This helps us to get more Dovecot developers, support people and so on. Most importantly, eventually it should allow me to get back to doing what I like the most: Designing new and interesting stuff for Dovecot and perfecting the old stuff :) OX is a great match to Dovecot going forward. They also really like open source and share our plans for the future. Nothing big will change as a result of this merger: Dovecot will stay Dovecot with its own name and release schedules. We're not going to force OX and Dovecot to be the same product, other than having a somewhat deeper integration between them.

Here are the press release links about it: http://www.dovecot.fi/open-xchange-and-dovecot-announce-merger-to-create-wor... http://www.open-xchange.com/dovecot http://www.open-xchange.com/announcements/18

-- Andreas Kasenides Senior IT Officer Dept. of Computer Science, University of Cyprus Tel: 22892714, Fax: 22892701 (5B4ANK)

Adrian Zaugg

5:17 p.m.

I think everyone shares your concerns. But there are no rules that the outcome of this merger must get something bad, so let's see what happens. I hope that it's true what Timo said and that dovecot can evolve and get even better as it is today. Good luck guys!

Regards, Adrian.

On 23.03.15 15:08, Andreas Kasenides wrote:

...

I find it extremely interesting that no one has commented on the merger of Dovecot Oy and Open-Xchange AG as announced by Timo on the 19th. Is this something that was known a long time ago and I missed? OK checked the on-line archive of the mailing list, no comments there - its not my email set-up - LOL. I am usually emotionally (at least) against of open-source projects loosing their independence to large corporations. Possibly due to bad experiences in the past when OSS were driven from Open to Obscure in the process of trying to make money out of them. I have several examples in mind but I will not give names. At least that is the impression I have which might be entirely wrong since when big companies begin to ask for large sums of money we just have to move away due to the small budget. Anyway this is not to about judging the move. Which I cannot do since I have no knowledge whatsover of the Dovecot enterprise internals and the difficulties that come with managing a leading software product. And, secondly, since I am (my employer ie) a non paying customer!! I was just struck by the fact that no one has commented on it.

I wish Dovecot the best in the new environment.

Andreas

On 19/03/15 12:26, Timo Sirainen wrote:

...
Hi all,

Today I can finally announce that Dovecot Oy company has merged with Open-Xchange AG. This helps us to get more Dovecot developers, support people and so on. Most importantly, eventually it should allow me to get back to doing what I like the most: Designing new and interesting stuff for Dovecot and perfecting the old stuff :) OX is a great match to Dovecot going forward. They also really like open source and share our plans for the future. Nothing big will change as a result of this merger: Dovecot will stay Dovecot with its own name and release schedules. We're not going to force OX and Dovecot to be the same product, other than having a somewhat deeper integration between them.

Here are the press release links about it: http://www.dovecot.fi/open-xchange-and-dovecot-announce-merger-to-create-wor...

http://www.open-xchange.com/dovecot http://www.open-xchange.com/announcements/18

Nick Edwards

24 Mar 24 Mar

7:15 a.m.

On 3/24/15, Adrian Zaugg adi@ente.limmat.ch wrote:

...

I think everyone shares your concerns. But there are no rules that the outcome of this merger must get something bad, so let's see what happens. I hope that it's true what Timo said and that dovecot can evolve and get even better as it is today. Good luck guys!

Indeed, and quite the opposite to MySQL when we all knew that oracle would destroy it or constrain it, before Sun sold out to them, and what we all forecast of course came true, oracle has done so badly with it, its original author Monty came back with a fork, one that every distro just about has changed to! Infact I dont know anyone using mysql today, most sane admins moved to mariadb where it is in safe hands. hopefuly Timo has a legal back door open to do the same should things change and go hte way mysql did.

Philipp

23 Mar 23 Mar

7:34 p.m.

Am 23.03.2015 15:08 schrieb Andreas Kasenides:

...

I am usually emotionally (at least) against of open-source projects loosing their independence to large corporations. Possibly due to bad experiences in the past when OSS were driven from Open to Obscure in the process of trying to make money out of them.

2ct from me--

I put it this way: if dovecot would have been a "pure" OSS before getting bought OAX, then response might would've been different.

But Dovecot OY is "making money out of it" for how long now? Five years that's not only "selling support".

Nginx went the same path - I'd say even more aggressive, given feature set differences.

Timo and his team has shown that they care about their OSS tree, e.g. do you really think all that replication and director "stuff" came from pure boredom? Show me OSS for cyrus, courier, .. on that level of "enterprisey".

Timo clearly wrote that this company merge is about putting together the PAID services efforts (think hotlines and such) and not mangling OX and dovecot into some "blob" (well, might happen one day in the future, but you would never know about *any* OSS unless you find a crystal globe telling you).

If my customers are reluctant to move IMAP servers to dovecot, because for now they have/had OX+whatever.. well, what better argument could one have then: Did you know that they are one company and have shared support now? ..

Just thinkin' and sayin'.

Bron Gondwana

25 Mar 25 Mar

3:04 a.m.

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015, at 04:34 AM, Philipp wrote:

...

Show me OSS for cyrus, courier, .. on that level of "enterprisey".

Hey, FastMail has been contributing pretty advanced stuff to Cyrus for years, and it's all open.

Back on topic - contrats Timo. Hope the merger works well for you. It's good to have two strong open-source mail servers out there.

Bron.

-- Bron Gondwana brong@fastmail.fm

Bernd Petrovitsch

26 Mar 26 Mar

1:05 p.m.

On Mon, 2015-03-23 at 16:08 +0200, Andreas Kasenides wrote:

...

I am usually emotionally (at least) against of open-source projects loosing their independence to large corporations. Possibly due to bad

OX-AG is a "large corporation"? Did I miss something?

Kind regards, Bernd

"I dislike type abstraction if it has no real reason. And saving on typing is not a good reason - if your typing speed is the main issue when you're coding, you're doing something seriously wrong." - Linus Torvalds

Andreas Kasenides

5:01 p.m.

On 26/03/15 13:05, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:

...

On Mon, 2015-03-23 at 16:08 +0200, Andreas Kasenides wrote:

...
I am usually emotionally (at least) against of open-source projects loosing their independence to large corporations. Possibly due to bad OX-AG is a "large corporation"? Did I miss something?

Kind regards, Bernd

I have no idea how large is OX-AG. That is not what I said anyway. At least not what I meant. I was trying to emphasize large or larger commercial entities trying to take advantage of the OSS community. Which happened many times in the past.

Andreas

-- Andreas Kasenides Senior IT Officer Dept. of Computer Science, University of Cyprus Tel: 22892714, Fax: 22892701 (5B4ANK)

Bernd Petrovitsch

1 Apr 1 Apr

2:04 p.m.

On Don, 2015-03-26 at 17:01 +0200, Andreas Kasenides wrote:

...

On 26/03/15 13:05, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:

...
On Mon, 2015-03-23 at 16:08 +0200, Andreas Kasenides wrote:

...
I am usually emotionally (at least) against of open-source projects loosing their independence to large corporations. Possibly due to bad OX-AG is a "large corporation"? Did I miss something?

Kind regards, Bernd

I have no idea how large is OX-AG. That is not what I said anyway. At

Well, at least somewhat implicated IMHO.

...

least not what I meant. ;-) Fair enough!

...

I was trying to emphasize large or larger commercial entities trying to take advantage of the OSS community. Which happened many times in the past.

Yes, there were some not-so-promising "take overs" but there were also others.

IMHO the larger the corporation is, the less are the chances for *long-term* benefits of the OSS/free software (mainly because: usually commercial success is driven and defined from marketing to sales[1] sown to the techies which are forced into "features" and "delivery dates" to achieve some "company defined goal" - and that is usually not "bug free", "safe", or the like. Free software/OSS just happens that *at least* half of it should come from the "working level" and that is - at least - much more - ahemm - "inconvenient" for sales people).

Bernd

[1]: Sorry, but some "pre-sales techies" which are not really involved in the technical realization afterwards are just an excuse for the sales department.

Reindl Harald

2:07 p.m.

Am 01.04.2015 um 13:04 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch:

...

IMHO the larger the corporation is, the less are the chances for *long-term* benefits of the OSS/free software (mainly because: usually commercial success is driven and defined from marketing to sales[1] sown to the techies which are forced into "features" and "delivery dates" to achieve some "company defined goal" - and that is usually not "bug free", "safe", or the like. Free software/OSS just happens that *at least* half of it should come from the "working level" and that is - at least - much more - ahemm - "inconvenient" for sales people)

that is simple not true - if it would be true linux distributions would not include half baken and aplha quality sofwtare again and again in stable releases because "the market out there"

the *possible* long-term benefits are more time to invest because a fixed income

Bernd Petrovitsch

3:33 p.m.

On Mit, 2015-04-01 at 13:07 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:

...

Am 01.04.2015 um 13:04 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch:

...
IMHO the larger the corporation is, the less are the chances for *long-term* benefits of the OSS/free software (mainly because: usually commercial success is driven and defined from marketing to sales[1] sown to the techies which are forced into "features" and "delivery dates" to achieve some "company defined goal" - and that is usually not "bug free", "safe", or the like. Free software/OSS just happens that *at least* half of it should come from the "working level" and that is - at least - much more - ahemm - "inconvenient" for sales people)

FWIW the context were large "old-school" corps (like Novell or Oracle) taking over free software companies.

...

that is simple not true - if it would be true linux distributions would

Define "true Linux distribution".

...

not include half baken and aplha quality sofwtare again and again in stable releases because "the market out there"

That's everywhere in the commercial world the problem with "delivery vs quality/known problems" and someone's decision to ship or not to ship - based in whatever feels appropriate.

BTW typical Linux distributions package some else's software and (almost) everyone knows that (and do not blame the distro for shipping buggy software - is there actually any bug-free software?;-).

And it depends on

the package (core package like kernel, gcc, perl, apache-http, ...) vs some exotic application (the n+1.th text editor, MUA, ...).
the bug in question - is that stuff unusable or happens the bug only if you do crazy creative stuff on files with 6+GB size or 1000k lines? And usually distros run bug tracking and (try to) get bugs fixed - in house or upstream.

...

the *possible* long-term benefits are more time to invest because a fixed income

If the free software is the core business, it is not a problem (and these are not the companies in the discussion).

Kind regards, BErnd

Reindl Harald

3:42 p.m.

Am 01.04.2015 um 14:33 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch:

...

On Mit, 2015-04-01 at 13:07 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:

...
Am 01.04.2015 um 13:04 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch:

...
IMHO the larger the corporation is, the less are the chances for *long-term* benefits of the OSS/free software (mainly because: usually commercial success is driven and defined from marketing to sales[1] sown to the techies which are forced into "features" and "delivery dates" to achieve some "company defined goal" - and that is usually not "bug free", "safe", or the like. Free software/OSS just happens that *at least* half of it should come from the "working level" and that is - at least - much more - ahemm - "inconvenient" for sales people)

FWIW the context were large "old-school" corps (like Novell or Oracle) taking over free software companies.

...
that is simple not true - if it would be true linux distributions would

Define "true Linux distribution".

who the fuck was talking abiut "true Linux distribution"?

...

...
not include half baken and aplha quality sofwtare again and again in stable releases because "the market out there"

That's everywhere in the commercial world the problem with "delivery vs quality/known problems" and someone's decision to ship or not to ship - based in whatever feels appropriate.

and in the opensource world too - so shwat

...

BTW typical Linux distributions package some else's software and (almost) everyone knows that (and do not blame the distro for shipping buggy software - is there actually any bug-free software?;-).

And it depends on

the package (core package like kernel, gcc, perl, apache-http, ...) vs some exotic application (the n+1.th text editor, MUA, ...).

the bug in question - is that stuff unusable or happens the bug only if you do crazy creative stuff on files with 6+GB size or 1000k lines? And usually distros run bug tracking and (try to) get bugs fixed - in house or upstream.

no it don't - it depends in a braindead race include new software generations in alpha quality state instead wait until it become mature

and *because* this happens with pure OSS too your statement above is wrong

...

...
the *possible* long-term benefits are more time to invest because a fixed income

If the free software is the core business, it is not a problem (and these are not the companies in the discussion)

and even if it is *not* the core business it is not a problem as long as you get what you have now maintained for free - if there is a new killer feature and you are a commercial mail hoster and don't want to spent a small amount of money your talking about opensource is hypocrisy because the only thing you care about is get anything for free

Bernd Petrovitsch

4:57 p.m.

On Mit, 2015-04-01 at 14:42 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:

...

Am 01.04.2015 um 14:33 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch:

...
On Mit, 2015-04-01 at 13:07 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:

...
Am 01.04.2015 um 13:04 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch:

...
IMHO the larger the corporation is, the less are the chances for *long-term* benefits of the OSS/free software (mainly because: usually commercial success is driven and defined from marketing to sales[1] sown to the techies which are forced into "features" and "delivery dates" to achieve some "company defined goal" - and that is usually not "bug free", "safe", or the like. Free software/OSS just happens that *at least* half of it should come from the "working level" and that is - at least - much more - ahemm - "inconvenient" for sales people)

FWIW the context were large "old-school" corps (like Novell or Oracle) taking over free software companies.

...
that is simple not true - if it would be true linux distributions would

Define "true Linux distribution".

who the fuck was talking abiut "true Linux distribution"?

Ooops, sry, misread that ("," could help ....). Actually, the whole area/discussion IMHO too versatile to invalidate (or validate) anything with just one example - not everything is white or black ... One had to look at each situation and the circumstances/conditions/... (and there is no excuse for companies to fix a bugs paid by their customers and "forget" to send them upstream - if only to get a confirmation on the quality).

...

...
...
not include half baken and aplha quality sofwtare again and again in stable releases because "the market out there"

That's everywhere in the commercial world the problem with "delivery vs quality/known problems" and someone's decision to ship or not to ship - based in whatever feels appropriate.

and in the opensource world too - so shwat

Usually a maintainer has no direct pressure on "shipping"/releasing. And sometimes one actually ships known bugs if only to motivate the ones who should fix the bugs and one doesn't want to become hostage of some lazy contributors;-)

[...] Kind regards, Bernd

Edwardo Garcia

2 Apr 2 Apr

3:30 p.m.

On 4/1/15, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:

...

Am 01.04.2015 um 14:33 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch:

...
On Mit, 2015-04-01 at 13:07 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:

...
Am 01.04.2015 um 13:04 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch:

...
IMHO the larger the corporation is, the less are the chances for *long-term* benefits of the OSS/free software (mainly because: usually commercial success is driven and defined from marketing to sales[1] sown to the techies which are forced into "features" and "delivery dates" to achieve some "company defined goal" - and that is usually not "bug free", "safe", or the like. Free software/OSS just happens that *at least* half of it should come from the "working level" and that is - at least - much more - ahemm - "inconvenient" for sales people)

FWIW the context were large "old-school" corps (like Novell or Oracle) taking over free software companies.

...
that is simple not true - if it would be true linux distributions would

Define "true Linux distribution".

who the fuck was talking abiut "true Linux distribution"?

you were cockhead, not taking your drugs again reindl eh or may be you are taking too much of the illegal ones and none of the ones the doctors prescribed you

Reindl Harald

6:49 p.m.

Am 02.04.2015 um 14:30 schrieb Edwardo Garcia:

...

On 4/1/15, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:

...

...
Am 01.04.2015 um 14:33 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch:

...
On Mit, 2015-04-01 at 13:07 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:

...
Am 01.04.2015 um 13:04 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch:

...
IMHO the larger the corporation is, the less are the chances for *long-term* benefits of the OSS/free software (mainly because: usually commercial success is driven and defined from marketing to sales[1] sown to the techies which are forced into "features" and "delivery dates" to achieve some "company defined goal" - and that is usually not "bug free", "safe", or the like. Free software/OSS just happens that *at least* half of it should come from the "working level" and that is - at least - much more - ahemm - "inconvenient" for sales people)

FWIW the context were large "old-school" corps (like Novell or Oracle) taking over free software companies.

...
that is simple not true - if it would be true linux distributions would

Define "true Linux distribution".

who the fuck was talking abiut "true Linux distribution"?

you were cockhead

no and if someone can't read a simple paragraph beause a missing comma it's not a compliment for him

...

...
...
...
that is simple not true - if it would be true, linux distributions would

...

not taking your drugs again reindl eh or may be you are taking too much of the illegal ones and none of the ones the doctors prescribed you

go and f** yourself since i didn't ask you to speak

Jogi Hofmüller

7:19 p.m.

Am 2015-04-02 um 17:49 schrieb Reindl Harald:

...

Am 02.04.2015 um 14:30 schrieb Edwardo Garcia:

...
On 4/1/15, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:

...
Am 01.04.2015 um 14:33 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch:

...
On Mit, 2015-04-01 at 13:07 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:

...
Am 01.04.2015 um 13:04 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch: that is simple not true - if it would be true linux distributions would

Define "true Linux distribution".

who the fuck was talking abiut "true Linux distribution"?

you were cockhead

no and if someone can't read a simple paragraph beause a missing comma it's not a compliment for him

Your sentence was not really entirely precise. What's the harm in saying sorry instead of barking at people?

Cheers,

j.hofmüller

mur.sat -- a space art project http://sat.mur.at/

Reindl Harald

7:24 p.m.

Am 02.04.2015 um 18:19 schrieb Jogi Hofmüller:

...

Am 2015-04-02 um 17:49 schrieb Reindl Harald:

...
Am 02.04.2015 um 14:30 schrieb Edwardo Garcia:

...
On 4/1/15, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:

...
Am 01.04.2015 um 14:33 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch:

...
On Mit, 2015-04-01 at 13:07 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:

...
Am 01.04.2015 um 13:04 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch: that is simple not true - if it would be true linux distributions would

Define "true Linux distribution".

who the fuck was talking abiut "true Linux distribution"?

you were cockhead

no and if someone can't read a simple paragraph beause a missing comma it's not a compliment for him

Your sentence was not really entirely precise.

it was in the context

...

What's the harm in saying sorry instead of barking at people?

sorry for what?

for not have any understanding that people blame developers trying to make money and feed their family while release the software as free available opensource?

and frankly *until* that has changed or at least the is a *single sign* that could change ever people should just shut up instead insinuate bad intentions to the developers all the thread long

Jogi Hofmüller

7:53 p.m.

Am 2015-04-02 um 18:24 schrieb Reindl Harald:

...

Am 02.04.2015 um 18:19 schrieb Jogi Hofmüller:

...
Am 2015-04-02 um 17:49 schrieb Reindl Harald:

...
Am 02.04.2015 um 14:30 schrieb Edwardo Garcia:

...
On 4/1/15, Reindl Harald wrote:

...
Am 01.04.2015 um 14:33 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch:

...
On Mit, 2015-04-01 at 13:07 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote: > Am 01.04.2015 um 13:04 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch: > that is simple not true - if it would be true linux distributions > would

Define "true Linux distribution".

who the fuck was talking abiut "true Linux distribution"?

you were cockhead

no and if someone can't read a simple paragraph beause a missing comma it's not a compliment for him

Your sentence was not really entirely precise.

it was in the context

...
What's the harm in saying sorry instead of barking at people?

sorry for what?

For not being precise (enough). If someone doesn't understand you you could try expressing whatever you meant to say in a different/better way. Cheers, -- j.hofmüller aka Thesix >-<#!&$@@@? http://thesix.mur.at/

Nick Edwards

3 Apr 3 Apr

6:19 a.m.

On 4/3/15, Jogi Hofmüller wrote:

...

Am 2015-04-02 um 18:24 schrieb Reindl Harald:

...
Am 02.04.2015 um 18:19 schrieb Jogi Hofmüller:

...
Am 2015-04-02 um 17:49 schrieb Reindl Harald:

...
Am 02.04.2015 um 14:30 schrieb Edwardo Garcia:

...
On 4/1/15, Reindl Harald wrote:

...
Am 01.04.2015 um 14:33 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch: > On Mit, 2015-04-01 at 13:07 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote: >> Am 01.04.2015 um 13:04 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch: >> that is simple not true - if it would be true linux distributions >> would > > Define "true Linux distribution".

who the fuck was talking abiut "true Linux distribution"?

you were cockhead

no and if someone can't read a simple paragraph beause a missing comma it's not a compliment for him

Your sentence was not really entirely precise.

it was in the context

...
What's the harm in saying sorry instead of barking at people?

sorry for what?

For not being precise (enough). If someone doesn't understand you you could try expressing whatever you meant to say in a different/better way.

Cheers, -- j.hofmüller aka Thesix >-<#!&$@@@? http://thesix.mur.at/

You must be new. The only way he expresses himself is via vile vitriol, its all the knob jockey knows, most people just ignore it.

Nick Edwards

6:28 a.m.

you wouldnt know, your not a developer, shit processor maybe, but not a developer

On 4/3/15, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:

...

Am 02.04.2015 um 18:19 schrieb Jogi Hofmüller:

...
Am 2015-04-02 um 17:49 schrieb Reindl Harald:

...
Am 02.04.2015 um 14:30 schrieb Edwardo Garcia:

...
On 4/1/15, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:

...
Am 01.04.2015 um 14:33 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch:

...
On Mit, 2015-04-01 at 13:07 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote: > Am 01.04.2015 um 13:04 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch: > that is simple not true - if it would be true linux distributions > would

Define "true Linux distribution".

who the fuck was talking abiut "true Linux distribution"?

you were cockhead

no and if someone can't read a simple paragraph beause a missing comma it's not a compliment for him

Your sentence was not really entirely precise.

it was in the context

...
What's the harm in saying sorry instead of barking at people?

sorry for what?

for not have any understanding that people blame developers trying to make money and feed their family while release the software as free available opensource?

and frankly *until* that has changed or at least the is a *single sign* that could change ever people should just shut up instead insinuate bad intentions to the developers all the thread long

Reindl Harald

12:13 p.m.

Am 03.04.2015 um 05:28 schrieb Nick Edwards:

...

you wouldnt know, your not a developer, shit processor maybe, but not a developer

you are just an idiot and nothing else

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/spamassassin/users/189665 https://www.mail-archive.com/users@spamassassin.apache.org/msg91823.html

...

On 4/3/15, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:

...
Am 02.04.2015 um 18:19 schrieb Jogi Hofmüller:

...
Am 2015-04-02 um 17:49 schrieb Reindl Harald:

...
Am 02.04.2015 um 14:30 schrieb Edwardo Garcia:

...
On 4/1/15, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:

...
Am 01.04.2015 um 14:33 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch: > On Mit, 2015-04-01 at 13:07 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote: >> Am 01.04.2015 um 13:04 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch: >> that is simple not true - if it would be true linux distributions >> would > > Define "true Linux distribution".

who the fuck was talking abiut "true Linux distribution"?

you were cockhead

no and if someone can't read a simple paragraph beause a missing comma it's not a compliment for him

Your sentence was not really entirely precise.

it was in the context

...
What's the harm in saying sorry instead of barking at people?

sorry for what?

for not have any understanding that people blame developers trying to make money and feed their family while release the software as free available opensource?

and frankly *until* that has changed or at least the is a *single sign* that could change ever people should just shut up instead insinuate bad intentions to the developers all the thread long

Charles Marcus

3:42 p.m.

People, PLEASE do not engage Reindl on the list, it always results in this kind of garbage that the adults on the list could do without.

If you feel compelled to 'call him out', then by all means do so, but do it PRIVATELY.

Thanks.

On 4/2/2015 11:28 PM, Nick Edwards nick.z.edwards@gmail.com wrote:

...

you wouldnt know, your not a developer, shit processor maybe, but not a developer

On 4/3/15, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:

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Am 02.04.2015 um 18:19 schrieb Jogi Hofmüller:

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Am 2015-04-02 um 17:49 schrieb Reindl Harald:

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Am 02.04.2015 um 14:30 schrieb Edwardo Garcia:

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On 4/1/15, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:

...
Am 01.04.2015 um 14:33 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch: > On Mit, 2015-04-01 at 13:07 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote: >> Am 01.04.2015 um 13:04 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch: >> that is simple not true - if it would be true linux distributions >> would > Define "true Linux distribution". who the fuck was talking abiut "true Linux distribution"? you were cockhead no and if someone can't read a simple paragraph beause a missing comma it's not a compliment for him Your sentence was not really entirely precise. it was in the context

...
What's the harm in saying sorry instead of barking at people? sorry for what?

for not have any understanding that people blame developers trying to make money and feed their family while release the software as free available opensource?

and frankly *until* that has changed or at least the is a *single sign* that could change ever people should just shut up instead insinuate bad intentions to the developers all the thread long

Jerry

4:09 p.m.

On Fri, 03 Apr 2015 08:42:42 -0400, Charles Marcus stated:

...

People, PLEASE do not engage Reindl on the list, it always results in this kind of garbage that the adults on the list could do without.

If you feel compelled to 'call him out', then by all means do so, but do it PRIVATELY.

It is not just Reindl. People like Nick who feel compelled to continue this persiflage are as bad as the originator.

I have just created a sieve rule to send Reindl, Nick and a few other individuals who feel the need to try and show their immaturity to "/dev/null". I read this forum to learn about Dovecot, not to listen to the rantings of a few Testosterone poisoned, immature posters.

-- Jerry

Andreas Kasenides

4:53 p.m.

On 03/04/15 16:09, Jerry wrote:

...

On Fri, 03 Apr 2015 08:42:42 -0400, Charles Marcus stated:

...
People, PLEASE do not engage Reindl on the list, it always results in this kind of garbage that the adults on the list could do without.

If you feel compelled to 'call him out', then by all means do so, but do it PRIVATELY. It is not just Reindl. People like Nick who feel compelled to continue this persiflage are as bad as the originator.

I have just created a sieve rule to send Reindl, Nick and a few other individuals who feel the need to try and show their immaturity to "/dev/null". I read this forum to learn about Dovecot, not to listen to the rantings of a few Testosterone poisoned, immature posters.

Please share. I know its easy to do, but share anyway!

-- Andreas Kasenides Senior IT Officer Dept. of Computer Science, University of Cyprus Tel: 22892714, Fax: 22892701 (5B4ANK)

Reindl Harald

4:57 p.m.

Am 03.04.2015 um 15:53 schrieb Andreas Kasenides:

...

On 03/04/15 16:09, Jerry wrote:

...
On Fri, 03 Apr 2015 08:42:42 -0400, Charles Marcus stated:

...
People, PLEASE do not engage Reindl on the list, it always results in this kind of garbage that the adults on the list could do without.

If you feel compelled to 'call him out', then by all means do so, but do it PRIVATELY. It is not just Reindl. People like Nick who feel compelled to continue this persiflage are as bad as the originator.

I have just created a sieve rule to send Reindl, Nick and a few other individuals who feel the need to try and show their immaturity to "/dev/null". I read this forum to learn about Dovecot, not to listen to the rantings of a few Testosterone poisoned, immature posters.

Please share. I know its easy to do, but share anyway!

if address :is ["From", "Sender"] ["address1", "address2"] { discard; }

Jerry

5:19 p.m.

On Fri, 03 Apr 2015 16:53:28 +0300, Andreas Kasenides stated:

...

On 03/04/15 16:09, Jerry wrote:

...
On Fri, 03 Apr 2015 08:42:42 -0400, Charles Marcus stated:

...
People, PLEASE do not engage Reindl on the list, it always results in this kind of garbage that the adults on the list could do without.

If you feel compelled to 'call him out', then by all means do so, but do it PRIVATELY. It is not just Reindl. People like Nick who feel compelled to continue this persiflage are as bad as the originator.

I have just created a sieve rule to send Reindl, Nick and a few other individuals who feel the need to try and show their immaturity to "/dev/null". I read this forum to learn about Dovecot, not to listen to the rantings of a few Testosterone poisoned, immature posters.

Please share. I know its easy to do, but share anyway!

This works for me:

if address :matches "From" [ "Sender" ] {discard; stop;}

-- Jerry

Benny Pedersen

10:14 p.m.

Andreas Kasenides skrev den 2015-04-03 15:53:

...

Please share. I know its easy to do, but share anyway!

require ["imap4flags"]; # rule:[h.reindl@thelounge.net] if header :contains "From" "h.reindl@thelounge.net" { addflag "\\Seen"; }

this dont break threads

add this as the very first rule, before any fileinto, note no stop in the above rule

possible he have more sender addresses

Reindl Harald

10:58 p.m.

Am 03.04.2015 um 21:14 schrieb Benny Pedersen:

...

Andreas Kasenides skrev den 2015-04-03 15:53:

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Please share. I know its easy to do, but share anyway!

require ["imap4flags"]; # rule:[h.reindl@thelounge.net] if header :contains "From" "h.reindl@thelounge.net" { addflag "\\Seen"; }

this dont break threads

add this as the very first rule, before any fileinto, note no stop in the above rule

possible he have more sender addresses

Benny, our master-troll - i already posted a working rule (yours is bullshit when somebody asks for blow mails to /dev/null) and i don't give a damn about people acting like stupid childs "booh the bad man said something not nice mama help me"

if address :is ["From", "Sender"] ["h.reindl@thelounge.net", "nick.z.edwards@gmail.com"] { discard; }

Gedalya

11:01 p.m.

This entire sub-thread is of no relation to dovecot, is of no interest to the public, has no value of any kind, and is highly irritating. It would be very kind if you all to do this in private. From now on and into the future. Please.

Nick Edwards

6:21 a.m.

On 4/2/15, Edwardo Garcia wdgarc88@gmail.com wrote:

...

On 4/1/15, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:

...
Am 01.04.2015 um 14:33 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch:

...
On Mit, 2015-04-01 at 13:07 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:

...
Am 01.04.2015 um 13:04 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch:

...
IMHO the larger the corporation is, the less are the chances for *long-term* benefits of the OSS/free software (mainly because: usually commercial success is driven and defined from marketing to sales[1] sown to the techies which are forced into "features" and "delivery dates" to achieve some "company defined goal" - and that is usually not "bug free", "safe", or the like. Free software/OSS just happens that *at least* half of it should come from the "working level" and that is - at least - much more - ahemm - "inconvenient" for sales people)

FWIW the context were large "old-school" corps (like Novell or Oracle) taking over free software companies.

...
that is simple not true - if it would be true linux distributions would

Define "true Linux distribution".

who the fuck was talking abiut "true Linux distribution"?

you were cockhead, not taking your drugs again reindl eh or may be you are taking too much of the illegal ones and none of the ones the doctors prescribed you

hahahahahahahahahaha right on brother! Oh I must remember to use that more often when calling him out for the troll he is - thats just GOLD!

Daniel Miller

25 Mar 25 Mar

10:46 p.m.

On 3/19/2015 3:26 AM, Timo Sirainen wrote:

...

Hi all,

Today I can finally announce that Dovecot Oy company has merged with Open-Xchange AG. This helps us to get more Dovecot developers, support people and so on. Most importantly, eventually it should allow me to get back to doing what I like the most: Designing new and interesting stuff for Dovecot and perfecting the old stuff :) OX is a great match to Dovecot going forward. They also really like open source and share our plans for the future. Nothing big will change as a result of this merger: Dovecot will stay Dovecot with its own name and release schedules. We're not going to force OX and Dovecot to be the same product, other than having a somewhat deeper integration between them.

My initial impression is...sounds great! Then, after further thought, and watching the flame war, I've changed my mind to...sounds great!

I'm operating under the assumption that you are continuing to be in charge of Dovecot and will choose what and how to implement changes and fixes. I'm further operating under the assumption that you may choose to have certain features, appropriate for larger installations, that you will want to receive compensation for from your users. And I'm assuming that by having OX behind you, those initial assumptions remain - Dovecot remains your baby, you will grow it as you see fit - but now you've got some financial backing that allows you more freedom to continue to develop Dovecot for general-purpose use while reasonably having certain features developed to support the paid model.

If I'm mistaken then please correct me - but I'm seeing nothing but upside. Certainly for you, and if you were to abandon open source Dovecot today (which I've seen absolutely no indication) you've already provided a tool that has a significant user base and you deserve to be rewarded for it. But based on your previous actions and your original post, and I have no reason not to take you at your word, this sounds like a win/win for Dovecot developers and users. Congratulations!

-- Daniel

Andreas Kasenides

11:46 p.m.

I hate to have started this, especially the "sister" thread that has dissented into a flame war of what is OSS.

Let me say that I believe there is nothing wrong trying to make money on ones efforts. Actually it is a must. How can anyone continue to put efforts into a project when there is no reward? Especially when most of the effort is by a single individual. Secondly there comes a point in time when any project needs help to advance. Any one individual will be unable to manage all the things that need to be done. It will either become a team effort of individuals employed elsewhere or somehow enter the commercial sector in some form. Both of these models have many examples out there and in the mean time maintaining their OSS root and community.

What I was mostly worried about was a sudden and rapid commercialization of the project in such a way that it completely disappears from the OSS community. I will give you an extreme example that we had the pleasure to be involved as payed customers and debugging contributors: KnowledgeTree DMS. If you do not know the story you will simply not find it. After years of the community contributing to the project a sudden shift to complete commercialization destroyed the project entirely: ie sourceforge project closed, source code disappeared, mailing lists vanished even the domain name name closed down. If it wasn't for third party storage/downloading sites the project source code would have been practically non-existent. I consider such behavior firstly immoral since a project's success is not only its design but largely also its debugging, mostly done by thousands of unknown helpers writing their experiences and problems in mailing lists.

I hope Timo manages well, keeps the community going but also makes a living (or a ton of money ) out of Dovecot. He deserves it. It is not impossible, others have done so successfully.

On 25/03/15 22:46, Daniel Miller wrote:

...

On 3/19/2015 3:26 AM, Timo Sirainen wrote:

...
Hi all,

Today I can finally announce that Dovecot Oy company has merged with Open-Xchange AG. This helps us to get more Dovecot developers, support people and so on. Most importantly, eventually it should allow me to get back to doing what I like the most: Designing new and interesting stuff for Dovecot and perfecting the old stuff :) OX is a great match to Dovecot going forward. They also really like open source and share our plans for the future. Nothing big will change as a result of this merger: Dovecot will stay Dovecot with its own name and release schedules. We're not going to force OX and Dovecot to be the same product, other than having a somewhat deeper integration between them.

My initial impression is...sounds great! Then, after further thought, and watching the flame war, I've changed my mind to...sounds great!

I'm operating under the assumption that you are continuing to be in charge of Dovecot and will choose what and how to implement changes and fixes. I'm further operating under the assumption that you may choose to have certain features, appropriate for larger installations, that you will want to receive compensation for from your users. And I'm assuming that by having OX behind you, those initial assumptions remain - Dovecot remains your baby, you will grow it as you see fit - but now you've got some financial backing that allows you more freedom to continue to develop Dovecot for general-purpose use while reasonably having certain features developed to support the paid model.

If I'm mistaken then please correct me - but I'm seeing nothing but upside. Certainly for you, and if you were to abandon open source Dovecot today (which I've seen absolutely no indication) you've already provided a tool that has a significant user base and you deserve to be rewarded for it. But based on your previous actions and your original post, and I have no reason not to take you at your word, this sounds like a win/win for Dovecot developers and users. Congratulations!

Asai

26 Mar 26 Mar

12:39 a.m.

Agreed. I think this is a positive move for Dovecot and Timo, Mikko, et al. I think only good will come of this for open source communications.

On 3/25/15 2:46 PM, Andreas Kasenides wrote:

...

I hate to have started this, especially the "sister" thread that has dissented into a flame war of what is OSS.

Let me say that I believe there is nothing wrong trying to make money on ones efforts. Actually it is a must. How can anyone continue to put efforts into a project when there is no reward? Especially when most of the effort is by a single individual. Secondly there comes a point in time when any project needs help to advance. Any one individual will be unable to manage all the things that need to be done. It will either become a team effort of individuals employed elsewhere or somehow enter the commercial sector in some form. Both of these models have many examples out there and in the mean time maintaining their OSS root and community.

What I was mostly worried about was a sudden and rapid commercialization of the project in such a way that it completely disappears from the OSS community. I will give you an extreme example that we had the pleasure to be involved as payed customers and debugging contributors: KnowledgeTree DMS. If you do not know the story you will simply not find it. After years of the community contributing to the project a sudden shift to complete commercialization destroyed the project entirely: ie sourceforge project closed, source code disappeared, mailing lists vanished even the domain name name closed down. If it wasn't for third party storage/downloading sites the project source code would have been practically non-existent. I consider such behavior firstly immoral since a project's success is not only its design but largely also its debugging, mostly done by thousands of unknown helpers writing their experiences and problems in mailing lists.

I hope Timo manages well, keeps the community going but also makes a living (or a ton of money ) out of Dovecot. He deserves it. It is not impossible, others have done so successfully.

On 25/03/15 22:46, Daniel Miller wrote:

...
On 3/19/2015 3:26 AM, Timo Sirainen wrote:

...
Hi all,

Today I can finally announce that Dovecot Oy company has merged with Open-Xchange AG. This helps us to get more Dovecot developers, support people and so on. Most importantly, eventually it should allow me to get back to doing what I like the most: Designing new and interesting stuff for Dovecot and perfecting the old stuff :) OX is a great match to Dovecot going forward. They also really like open source and share our plans for the future. Nothing big will change as a result of this merger: Dovecot will stay Dovecot with its own name and release schedules. We're not going to force OX and Dovecot to be the same product, other than having a somewhat deeper integration between them.

My initial impression is...sounds great! Then, after further thought, and watching the flame war, I've changed my mind to...sounds great!

I'm operating under the assumption that you are continuing to be in charge of Dovecot and will choose what and how to implement changes and fixes. I'm further operating under the assumption that you may choose to have certain features, appropriate for larger installations, that you will want to receive compensation for from your users. And I'm assuming that by having OX behind you, those initial assumptions remain - Dovecot remains your baby, you will grow it as you see fit - but now you've got some financial backing that allows you more freedom to continue to develop Dovecot for general-purpose use while reasonably having certain features developed to support the paid model.

If I'm mistaken then please correct me - but I'm seeing nothing but upside. Certainly for you, and if you were to abandon open source Dovecot today (which I've seen absolutely no indication) you've already provided a tool that has a significant user base and you deserve to be rewarded for it. But based on your previous actions and your original post, and I have no reason not to take you at your word, this sounds like a win/win for Dovecot developers and users. Congratulations!

-- --asai

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List overview

32 comments

16 participants

participants (16)

Adrian Zaugg
Andreas Kasenides
Asai
Benny Pedersen
Bernd Petrovitsch
Bron Gondwana
Charles Marcus
Daniel Miller
Edwardo Garcia
Gedalya
Jerry
Jogi Hofmüller
Nick Edwards
Philipp
Reindl Harald
Timo Sirainen