[Dovecot] Copies of outgoing emails in the Sent folder
Hi!
My mail server works in tandem: Dovecot (IMAP) + Postfix. How can I configure in Gmail: Outgoing email copied to the Sent folder using postfix without mail client? This question is for the mailing list for Postfix? Mail client itself copies outgoing messages in the folder Sent, but the messages are large, and the server is far away. And to transmit email twice for sending and copying is not effective.
Sorry for my English ).
-- Regards Dmitry Podkovyrkin mobile: +7 922 20 56 756 email: dmirty@rutelecom.company skype: dmitryrw
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On Thu, 22 May 2014, Dmitry Podkovyrkin wrote:
My mail server works in tandem: Dovecot (IMAP) + Postfix. How can I configure in Gmail: Outgoing email copied to the Sent folder using postfix without mail client? This question is for the mailing list for Postfix? Mail client itself copies outgoing messages in the folder Sent, but the messages are large, and the server is far away. And to transmit email twice for sending and copying is not effective.
Either add a BCC to each message in the mail client or in postfix.
Then have that BCC mail address delivered into the user's Sent mailbox. For this, you could use sub- or plus-addressing, e.g. user+Sent@example.org, or add yet another mail alias, that Sieve is "fileinto Sent" , or ... .
Steffen Kaiser -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
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Yes, it is a solution to this problem. But for a single user. And how can you do it for the entire server?
22.05.2014 13:18, Steffen Kaiser пишет:
On Thu, 22 May 2014, Dmitry Podkovyrkin wrote:
My mail server works in tandem: Dovecot (IMAP) + Postfix. How can I configure in Gmail: Outgoing email copied to the Sent folder using postfix without mail client? This question is for the mailing list for Postfix? Mail client itself copies outgoing messages in the folder Sent, but the messages are large, and the server is far away. And to transmit email twice for sending and copying is not effective.
Either add a BCC to each message in the mail client or in postfix.
Then have that BCC mail address delivered into the user's Sent mailbox. For this, you could use sub- or plus-addressing, e.g. user+Sent@example.org, or add yet another mail alias, that Sieve is "fileinto Sent" , or ... .
-- Regards Dmitry Podkovyrkin mobile: +7 922 20 56 756 email: dmirty@rutelecom.company skype: dmitryrw
On -10.01.-28163 20:59, Dmitry Podkovyrkin wrote:
Yes, it is a solution to this problem. But for a single user. And how can you do it for the entire server?
If I may answer your question with a question: How well does "*our* entire (outgoing-)mailserver" translate to "for all e-mails our *users* send, including those working at remote locations or with mobile devices", assuming that that latter is your actual goal?
Regards, J. Bern
*NEU* - NEC IT-Infrastruktur-Produkte im http://www.linworks-shop.de/: Server--Storage--Virtualisierung--Management SW--Passion for Performance Jochen Bern, Systemingenieur --- LINworks GmbH http://www.LINworks.de/ Postfach 100121, 64201 Darmstadt | Robert-Koch-Str. 9, 64331 Weiterstadt PGP (1024D/4096g) FP = D18B 41B1 16C0 11BA 7F8C DCF7 E1D5 FAF4 444E 1C27 Tel. +49 6151 9067-231, Zentr. -0, Fax -299 - Amtsg. Darmstadt HRB 85202 Unternehmenssitz Weiterstadt, Geschäftsführer Metin Dogan, Oliver Michel
Am 23.05.2014 13:25, schrieb Jochen Bern:
On -10.01.-28163 20:59, Dmitry Podkovyrkin wrote:
Yes, it is a solution to this problem. But for a single user. And how can you do it for the entire server?
If I may answer your question with a question: How well does "*our* entire (outgoing-)mailserver" translate to "for all e-mails our *users* send, including those working at remote locations or with mobile devices", assuming that that latter is your actual goal?
how does it matter where the user is and what device he uses?
the user *always must* use the one and only SMTP server responsible for his domain, especially in times of SPF, DKIM and DMARC and spoofing protections for incoming mail
anything else is an idiot ignoring the configuration data his mailprovider gave him supported by a second idiot running a MTA which allows random envelope-senders and in that case nobody but the user is responsible for rejected, dropped and lost mails
On -10.01.-28163 20:59, Reindl Harald wrote:
the user *always must* use the one and only SMTP server responsible for his domain, especially in times of SPF, DKIM and DMARC and spoofing protections for incoming mail
And who ever said that users cannot go and use a different domain *if* using another infrastructure is what they want to do?
(I have seen management and sales types who think that buying an account at some-fancy-executives-meeting-place.com is a valid technical solution for the "problem" of their own company's remote-work infrastructure not being on the level of the Fortune 500 enterprise they dream of working at. The national legislator, mandating that companies maintain an archive of all business relevant communications, begs to differ.)
Regards, J. Bern
*NEU* - NEC IT-Infrastruktur-Produkte im http://www.linworks-shop.de/: Server--Storage--Virtualisierung--Management SW--Passion for Performance Jochen Bern, Systemingenieur --- LINworks GmbH http://www.LINworks.de/ Postfach 100121, 64201 Darmstadt | Robert-Koch-Str. 9, 64331 Weiterstadt PGP (1024D/4096g) FP = D18B 41B1 16C0 11BA 7F8C DCF7 E1D5 FAF4 444E 1C27 Tel. +49 6151 9067-231, Zentr. -0, Fax -299 - Amtsg. Darmstadt HRB 85202 Unternehmenssitz Weiterstadt, Geschäftsführer Metin Dogan, Oliver Michel
Am 23.05.2014 14:29, schrieb Jochen Bern:
On -10.01.-28163 20:59, Reindl Harald wrote:
the user *always must* use the one and only SMTP server responsible for his domain, especially in times of SPF, DKIM and DMARC and spoofing protections for incoming mail
And who ever said that users cannot go and use a different domain *if* using another infrastructure is what they want to do?
and how is that my problem as i am responsible for *my* servers and the domains i maintain and *nothing* else?
sent mails are on the server responsible for that different domains - so what......
they can create accounts and domains as much as they like
but i am not responsible for mails with @gmail.com, not allow my servers them as evenople as the same vice versa from gmail and domains i host
so what did you want to explain me?
that the user has a problem if he is using random sender addresses from random and don't manage to handle it over the long? who cares?
On 23.05.2014 15:18, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 23.05.2014 14:29, schrieb Jochen Bern:
On -10.01.-28163 20:59, Reindl Harald wrote:
the user *always must* use the one and only SMTP server responsible for his domain, especially in times of SPF, DKIM and DMARC and spoofing protections for incoming mail
And who ever said that users cannot go and use a different domain *if* using another infrastructure is what they want to do?
and how is that my problem as i am responsible for *my* servers and the domains i maintain and *nothing* else?
So the specific *LEGAL REQUIREMENTS* I gave as an example don't apply to your servers/organization/country/whatever? Good for you. Now how about we wait for Dmitry to tell us whether or not *he* needs the solution to *his* problem to address such scenarios?
Regards, J. Bern
*NEU* - NEC IT-Infrastruktur-Produkte im http://www.linworks-shop.de/: Server--Storage--Virtualisierung--Management SW--Passion for Performance Jochen Bern, Systemingenieur --- LINworks GmbH http://www.LINworks.de/ Postfach 100121, 64201 Darmstadt | Robert-Koch-Str. 9, 64331 Weiterstadt PGP (1024D/4096g) FP = D18B 41B1 16C0 11BA 7F8C DCF7 E1D5 FAF4 444E 1C27 Tel. +49 6151 9067-231, Zentr. -0, Fax -299 - Amtsg. Darmstadt HRB 85202 Unternehmenssitz Weiterstadt, Geschäftsführer Metin Dogan, Oliver Michel
Am 23.05.2014 17:51, schrieb Jochen Bern:
On 23.05.2014 15:18, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 23.05.2014 14:29, schrieb Jochen Bern:
On -10.01.-28163 20:59, Reindl Harald wrote:
the user *always must* use the one and only SMTP server responsible for his domain, especially in times of SPF, DKIM and DMARC and spoofing protections for incoming mail
And who ever said that users cannot go and use a different domain *if* using another infrastructure is what they want to do?
and how is that my problem as i am responsible for *my* servers and the domains i maintain and *nothing* else?
So the specific *LEGAL REQUIREMENTS* I gave as an example don't apply to your servers/organization/country/whatever? Good for you. Now how about we wait for Dmitry to tell us whether or not *he* needs the solution to *his* problem to address such scenarios?
which legal requirements?
- domain1.exmaple.com has his incoming and outgoing server
- domain2.example.com has his incoming and outgoing server
domain1.example.com must not accept sombeody@domain2.example.com as sender and is using SPF
domain2.example.com must not accept sombeody@domain1.example.com as sender and is using SPF
user of domain1.example.com must not use the MTA of domain2.example.com for sending mails with his domain1.example.com
user of domain2.example.com must not use the MTA of domain1.example.com for sending mails with his domain2.example.com
there is nothing between - period
On -10.01.-28163 20:59, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 23.05.2014 17:51, schrieb Jochen Bern:
So the specific *LEGAL REQUIREMENTS* I gave as an example don't apply to your servers/organization/country/whatever? Good for you. Now how about we wait for Dmitry to tell us whether or not *he* needs the solution to *his* problem to address such scenarios?
which legal requirements?
Legal requirements like, for example, these German ones: http://www.recht-im-internet.de/themen/archivierung.htm Note that the legalese addresses users acting in the name of a company, *regardless* of what infrastructure they're using to do so.
user of domain1.example.com must not use the MTA of domain2.example.com for sending mails with his domain1.example.com
user of domain2.example.com must not use the MTA of domain1.example.com for sending mails with his domain2.example.com
there is nothing between - period
I asked Dmitry whether users of his domain1 picking up the habit of sending e-mail (on domain1 matters) through some domain2 - in a way that's perfectly acceptable on the *technical* plane you're so obsessed about - and thus bypassing the automatic copy he's trying to set up on domain1's servers is a development he can accept. For me, it would *not* be, for reasons that are non-technical but nonetheless binding.
Regards, J. Bern
*NEU* - NEC IT-Infrastruktur-Produkte im http://www.linworks-shop.de/: Server--Storage--Virtualisierung--Management SW--Passion for Performance Jochen Bern, Systemingenieur --- LINworks GmbH http://www.LINworks.de/ Postfach 100121, 64201 Darmstadt | Robert-Koch-Str. 9, 64331 Weiterstadt PGP (1024D/4096g) FP = D18B 41B1 16C0 11BA 7F8C DCF7 E1D5 FAF4 444E 1C27 Tel. +49 6151 9067-231, Zentr. -0, Fax -299 - Amtsg. Darmstadt HRB 85202 Unternehmenssitz Weiterstadt, Geschäftsführer Metin Dogan, Oliver Michel
Am 25.05.2014 01:18, schrieb Jochen Bern:
On -10.01.-28163 20:59, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 23.05.2014 17:51, schrieb Jochen Bern:
So the specific *LEGAL REQUIREMENTS* I gave as an example don't apply to your servers/organization/country/whatever? Good for you. Now how about we wait for Dmitry to tell us whether or not *he* needs the solution to *his* problem to address such scenarios?
which legal requirements?
Legal requirements like, for example, these German ones: http://www.recht-im-internet.de/themen/archivierung.htm Note that the legalese addresses users acting in the name of a company, *regardless* of what infrastructure they're using to do so
and *that is* why if you are sending with @domain1.example.com you have to use the MTA responsible for @domain1.example.com
strange that you try to contradict what i originally said while you acknowldege it at the same time
the user *always must* use the one and only SMTP server responsible for his domain, especially in times of SPF, DKIM and DMARC and spoofing protections for incoming mail
On -10.01.-28163 20:59, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 25.05.2014 01:18, schrieb Jochen Bern:
Legal requirements like, for example, these German ones: http://www.recht-im-internet.de/themen/archivierung.htm Note that the legalese addresses users acting in the name of a company, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ *regardless* of what infrastructure they're using to do so ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and *that is* why if you are sending with @domain1.example.com ^^ ^^^^^^ you have to use the MTA responsible for @domain1.example.com ^^^
And with the above highlighting, I shall rest my case of you never understanding word one of what I wrote.
Regards, J. Bern
*NEU* - NEC IT-Infrastruktur-Produkte im http://www.linworks-shop.de/: Server--Storage--Virtualisierung--Management SW--Passion for Performance Jochen Bern, Systemingenieur --- LINworks GmbH http://www.LINworks.de/ Postfach 100121, 64201 Darmstadt | Robert-Koch-Str. 9, 64331 Weiterstadt PGP (1024D/4096g) FP = D18B 41B1 16C0 11BA 7F8C DCF7 E1D5 FAF4 444E 1C27 Tel. +49 6151 9067-231, Zentr. -0, Fax -299 - Amtsg. Darmstadt HRB 85202 Unternehmenssitz Weiterstadt, Geschäftsführer Metin Dogan, Oliver Michel
Am 26.05.2014 13:01, schrieb Jochen Bern:
On -10.01.-28163 20:59, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 25.05.2014 01:18, schrieb Jochen Bern:
Legal requirements like, for example, these German ones: http://www.recht-im-internet.de/themen/archivierung.htm Note that the legalese addresses users acting in the name of a company, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ *regardless* of what infrastructure they're using to do so ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and *that is* why if you are sending with @domain1.example.com ^^ ^^^^^^ you have to use the MTA responsible for @domain1.example.com ^^^
And with the above highlighting, I shall rest my case of you never understanding word one of what I wrote.
WTF - how do you imagine to solve if someone is using his gmail account and gmail-address for sending a message?
damned in that case *you are not resposible for anything* because you can't and the only one responsible for his mistake is the user doing so - social problems can't be solved on a technical level
you started with:
If I may answer your question with a question: How well does "*our* entire (outgoing-)mailserver" translate to "for all e-mails our *users* send, including those working at remote locations or with mobile devices", assuming that that latter is your actual goal?
it *does not matter* the mobile device has to use the same mailserver as any other device and if the user using his ISP's MTA because he is too stupid to enter the correct configuration or willingly ignores it not your problem
so please stop talking bullshit
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On Thu, 22 May 2014, Dmitry Podkovyrkin wrote:
Yes, it is a solution to this problem. But for a single user.
Well, no. Every user can add a BCC in his client. Maybe you use a central client configuration setup. I don't know your situation.
And how can you do it for the entire server?
Well, as I said, "in postfix". It's your MTA all your users are going through. How to do it with postfix, I don't know, because I do not run no postfix.
22.05.2014 13:18, Steffen Kaiser пишет:
On Thu, 22 May 2014, Dmitry Podkovyrkin wrote:
My mail server works in tandem: Dovecot (IMAP) + Postfix. How can I configure in Gmail: Outgoing email copied to the Sent folder using postfix without mail client? This question is for the mailing list for Postfix? Mail client itself copies outgoing messages in the folder Sent, but the messages are large, and the server is far away. And to transmit email twice for sending and copying is not effective.
Either add a BCC to each message in the mail client or in postfix.
Then have that BCC mail address delivered into the user's Sent mailbox. For this, you could use sub- or plus-addressing, e.g. user+Sent@example.org, or add yet another mail alias, that Sieve is "fileinto Sent" , or ... .
Steffen Kaiser -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
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On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 02:26:37PM +0200, Steffen Kaiser wrote:
And how can you do it for the entire server?
Well, as I said, "in postfix". It's your MTA all your users are going through. How to do it with postfix, I don't know, because I do not run no postfix.
OT for this list, but didn't see the answer to this yet; the parameter in Postfix is called '$always_bcc'.
w
On 5/22/2014 8:45 AM, Dmitry Podkovyrkin wrote:
Hi!
My mail server works in tandem: Dovecot (IMAP) + Postfix. How can I configure in Gmail: Outgoing email copied to the Sent folder using postfix without mail client? This question is for the mailing list for Postfix? Mail client itself copies outgoing messages in the folder Sent, but the messages are large, and the server is far away. And to transmit email twice for sending and copying is not effective.
Some earlier discussions:
http://postfix.1071664.n5.nabble.com/Saving-to-Sent-folder-td38182.html http://www.dovecot.org/list/dovecot/2010-March/047272.html http://www.dovecot.org/list/dovecot/2013-May/090288.html
Regards,
Stephan.
participants (6)
-
Dmitry Podkovyrkin
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Jochen Bern
-
Reindl Harald
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Steffen Kaiser
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Stephan Bosch
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Will Yardley