[Dovecot] xexec and dovecot 1.1
Patch and prepatched version of xexec module to dovecot v1.1 now available from http://wiki.dovecot.org/Plugins/xexec. Thanks for patch to Stephan Bosch.
Alex wrote:
Patch and prepatched version of xexec module to dovecot v1.1 now available from http://wiki.dovecot.org/Plugins/xexec. Thanks for patch to Stephan Bosch.
Thanks Alex. If people like you who are actually using this want to take over the development of it that would be fine with me. I just started it to get the idea going in hopes it would take off and become a standard for nonstandard extensions. I think it has great potential.
What I'm really looking for someone to do is write some kind of SMTP over IMAP plugin so that IMAP can be an authenticated transport that would carry outbound email to Dovecot which would hand it off to an SMTP server or be a conduit to SMTP server. That way email users need not configure outgoing SMTP. It would just send outgoing email over the same connections.
On 3/25/2008, Marc Perkel (marc@perkel.com) wrote:
What I'm really looking for someone to do is write some kind of SMTP over IMAP plugin so that IMAP can be an authenticated transport that would carry outbound email to Dovecot which would hand it off to an SMTP server or be a conduit to SMTP server. That way email users need not configure outgoing SMTP. It would just send outgoing email over the same connections.
I have been a big detractor for any usefulness for this kind of thing, but there is one use that would be a big plus...
For the 'Copy to Sent' function... if you sent a message somehow using the IMAP connection, maybe you could save the Client having to upload the same message AGAIN just to copy it to the Sent folder (think 10MB email sent over a 512Kb connection)...
--
Best regards,
Charles
On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 11:35 -0400, Charles Marcus wrote:
On 3/25/2008, Marc Perkel (marc@perkel.com) wrote:
What I'm really looking for someone to do is write some kind of SMTP over IMAP plugin so that IMAP can be an authenticated transport that would carry outbound email to Dovecot which would hand it off to an SMTP server or be a conduit to SMTP server. That way email users need not configure outgoing SMTP. It would just send outgoing email over the same connections.
I have been a big detractor for any usefulness for this kind of thing, but there is one use that would be a big plus...
For the 'Copy to Sent' function... if you sent a message somehow using the IMAP connection, maybe you could save the Client having to upload the same message AGAIN just to copy it to the Sent folder (think 10MB email sent over a 512Kb connection)...
LEMONADE's URLAUTH + CATENATE extensions will help with this. Everything else is also possible to do in more standard (although maybe more complex) ways except one: Some stupid networks block also submission port, so it's not possible to send outgoing mails with either port smtp/25 or submission/587 (or probably also ssmtp/465).
Charles Marcus wrote:
On 3/25/2008, Marc Perkel (marc@perkel.com) wrote:
What I'm really looking for someone to do is write some kind of SMTP over IMAP plugin so that IMAP can be an authenticated transport that would carry outbound email to Dovecot which would hand it off to an SMTP server or be a conduit to SMTP server. That way email users need not configure outgoing SMTP. It would just send outgoing email over the same connections.
I have been a big detractor for any usefulness for this kind of thing, but there is one use that would be a big plus...
For the 'Copy to Sent' function... if you sent a message somehow using the IMAP connection, maybe you could save the Client having to upload the same message AGAIN just to copy it to the Sent folder (think 10MB email sent over a 512Kb connection)...
That's a good point. The operation of copying to a server side sent folder could be done in the same operation.
So Charles - why is it that you've resisted the idea? it just seems so natural to me.
On 3/25/2008, Marc Perkel (marc@perkel.com) wrote:
So Charles - why is it that you've resisted the idea? it just seems so natural to me.
I've read your messages calling for much more than just 'smtp over imap' for the imap protocol, and didn't care much for the ideas, because an IMAP/POP server is an IMAP/POP server - not an SMTP server (or a file manager, or anything else).
But when I was sitting here watching a large email I had just sent copying to the Sent folder, just minutes after reading your message - it hit me that this would be one very real benefit to it...
--
Best regards,
Charles
Charles Marcus wrote:
On 3/25/2008, Marc Perkel (marc@perkel.com) wrote:
So Charles - why is it that you've resisted the idea? it just seems so natural to me.
I've read your messages calling for much more than just 'smtp over imap' for the imap protocol, and didn't care much for the ideas, because an IMAP/POP server is an IMAP/POP server - not an SMTP server (or a file manager, or anything else).
But when I was sitting here watching a large email I had just sent copying to the Sent folder, just minutes after reading your message - it hit me that this would be one very real benefit to it...
Yes - my idea isn't for Dovecot to be an SMTP server. As you know IMAP can move messages from the client to the server. My idea is that you add the ability to move it to the server and then hand it off to a real SMTP server for delivery. IMAP is just being used as a transport to upload the message past various port blocks. Does this make sense?
On 3/25/2008 2:20 PM, Marc Perkel wrote:
But when I was sitting here watching a large email I had just sent copying to the Sent folder, just minutes after reading your message - it hit me that this would be one very real benefit to it...
Yes - my idea isn't for Dovecot to be an SMTP server. As you know IMAP can move messages from the client to the server. My idea is that you add the ability to move it to the server and then hand it off to a real SMTP server for delivery. IMAP is just being used as a transport to upload the message past various port blocks. Does this make sense?
Of course... this is the part I saw some value in.
But what I meant was, I had seen some messages from you in the past (many months ago) suggesting changes the the IMAP protocol in general that would allow the execution of arbitrary code to do arbitrary things. *This* is what I didn't like.
--
Best regards,
Charles
I added your idea to my list of reasons for SMTP over IMAP.
SMTP over IMAPOne of the purposes of developing XEXEC was to lead to SMTP over IMAP. The idea is rather than having a separate configuration for outgoing email that users would use the already authenticated IMAP session to transport outgoing email to an SMTP server which would accept it for outgoing delivery. Such a system would have several advantages.
* Simplicity of setup - Outgoing SMTP goes away.
* Port Blocking - no port 25 blocks to worry about
* Single login - same login for incoming and outgoing email
* Authentication - The person sending the email is the person who
can read email sent to that address
* Single Protocol - Why use both SMTP and IMAP when you can use just
one?
* Copy to server side sent folder - no need to upload the message twice
* Virus Isolation - With port 25 blocked viruses wouldn't be able to
send email.SENDER (IMAP) -> DOVECOT (local) -> SMTP-OUT (SMTP) ---------> SMTP-IN -> RECIPIENT (IMAP)
IMAP would be a consumer to server protocol. SMTP would be a server to server protocol.
Charles Marcus escribió:
On 3/25/2008, Marc Perkel (marc@perkel.com) wrote:
What I'm really looking for someone to do is write some kind of SMTP over IMAP plugin so that IMAP can be an authenticated transport that would carry outbound email to Dovecot which would hand it off to an SMTP server or be a conduit to SMTP server. That way email users need not configure outgoing SMTP. It would just send outgoing email over the same connections.
I have been a big detractor for any usefulness for this kind of thing, but there is one use that would be a big plus...
For the 'Copy to Sent' function... if you sent a message somehow using the IMAP connection, maybe you could save the Client having to upload the same message AGAIN just to copy it to the Sent folder (think 10MB email sent over a 512Kb connection)...
No need for a new extension, it's easier to make your MTA deliver a copy of outgoing mail to the 'Sent' folder for those users that want it.
-- Angel Marin http://anmar.eu.org/
For the 'Copy to Sent' function... if you sent a message somehow using the IMAP connection, maybe you could save the Client having to upload the same message AGAIN just to copy it to the Sent folder (think 10MB email sent over a 512Kb connection)...
No need for a new extension, it's easier to make your MTA deliver a copy of outgoing mail to the 'Sent' folder for those users that want it.
OK, I'm game. Design this for me assuming Postfix + Dovecot. Lets assume they are on different servers just to examine the more general situation. We can probably assume an authenticated sasl connection or else it becomes fairly intractable, but we have to assume that customers can choose their FROM address (for many setups the incoming connection might be both unauthenticated AND have random (even forged) FROM addresses...)
So what should the config look like?
Ed
Ed W wrote:
For the 'Copy to Sent' function... if you sent a message somehow using the IMAP connection, maybe you could save the Client having to upload the same message AGAIN just to copy it to the Sent folder (think 10MB email sent over a 512Kb connection)...
No need for a new extension, it's easier to make your MTA deliver a copy of outgoing mail to the 'Sent' folder for those users that want it.
OK, I'm game. Design this for me assuming Postfix + Dovecot. Lets assume they are on different servers just to examine the more general situation. We can probably assume an authenticated sasl connection or else it becomes fairly intractable, but we have to assume that customers can choose their FROM address (for many setups the incoming connection might be both unauthenticated AND have random (even forged) FROM addresses...)
So what should the config look like?
Ed
Assuming you are talking about my idea that IMAP have an outgoing mail extension and copies the outgoing message to the sent folder.
After dovecot receives he outgoing message it will just do an SMTP connection to a server that is set up to receive it and relay it.
smtpserver = 1.2.3.4 copyfolder = sent
Is this what you are asking?
On 3/27/2008, Marc Perkel (marc@perkel.com) wrote:
After dovecot receives he outgoing message it will just do an SMTP connection to a server that is set up to receive it and relay it.
The question I have is how would you configure the Client to do this? I guess just point it to the same server address as the incoming server?
--
Best regards,
Charles
on 3-27-2008 11:50 AM Charles Marcus spake the following:
On 3/27/2008, Marc Perkel (marc@perkel.com) wrote:
After dovecot receives he outgoing message it will just do an SMTP connection to a server that is set up to receive it and relay it.
The question I have is how would you configure the Client to do this? I guess just point it to the same server address as the incoming server?
Someone would have to re-write the clients also. This looks like something else that Outlook will break.
-- MailScanner is like deodorant... You hope everybody uses it, and you notice quickly if they don't!!!!
Charles Marcus wrote:
On 3/27/2008, Marc Perkel (marc@perkel.com) wrote:
After dovecot receives he outgoing message it will just do an SMTP connection to a server that is set up to receive it and relay it.
The question I have is how would you configure the Client to do this? I guess just point it to the same server address as the incoming server?
Clients would have to be rewritten to support the new IMAP extensions. If the IMAP server supported outgoing email then the client would know it through CAPABILITIES. It would then not need to have any outgoing email settings. It would cut client configuration in half.
On 3/27/2008, Marc Perkel (marc@perkel.com) wrote:
Clients would have to be rewritten to support the new IMAP extensions. If the IMAP server supported outgoing email then the client would know it through CAPABILITIES. It would then not need to have any outgoing email settings. It would cut client configuration in half.
My server currently uses:
Incoming: imap.example.com Outgoing: smtp.example.com
If dovecot 'understands' smtp, then why couldn't you just point the outgoing to 'imap.example.com', so no Client mods would be needed?
--
Best regards,
Charles
on 3-27-2008 12:30 PM Charles Marcus spake the following:
On 3/27/2008, Marc Perkel (marc@perkel.com) wrote:
Clients would have to be rewritten to support the new IMAP extensions. If the IMAP server supported outgoing email then the client would know it through CAPABILITIES. It would then not need to have any outgoing email settings. It would cut client configuration in half.
My server currently uses:
Incoming: imap.example.com Outgoing: smtp.example.com
If dovecot 'understands' smtp, then why couldn't you just point the outgoing to 'imap.example.com', so no Client mods would be needed?
But the clients send to port 25 on the outgoing server, unless you force them to use something different. Port 25 is SMTP. You can have incoming and outgoing on the same server, you just need a MTA running along with the dovecot server.
Scott Silva wrote:
on 3-27-2008 12:30 PM Charles Marcus spake the following:
On 3/27/2008, Marc Perkel (marc@perkel.com) wrote:
Clients would have to be rewritten to support the new IMAP extensions. If the IMAP server supported outgoing email then the client would know it through CAPABILITIES. It would then not need to have any outgoing email settings. It would cut client configuration in half.
My server currently uses:
Incoming: imap.example.com Outgoing: smtp.example.com
If dovecot 'understands' smtp, then why couldn't you just point the outgoing to 'imap.example.com', so no Client mods would be needed?
But the clients send to port 25 on the outgoing server, unless you force them to use something different. Port 25 is SMTP. You can have incoming and outgoing on the same server, you just need a MTA running along with the dovecot server.
That's right. I'm assuming that anyone who is running Dovecot also runs an MTA. My idea for using IMAP as an outgoing transport is just to move the outgoing message from the client to dovecot, then dovecot hands it off locally to the MTA, and the MTA sends it to the destination. I'm not suggesting Dovecot become an MTA.
participants (7)
-
Alex
-
Angel Marin
-
Charles Marcus
-
Ed W
-
Marc Perkel
-
Scott Silva
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Timo Sirainen