Subject tag [Dovecot] is gone

newer
[Dovecot] doveadm index - Bug or...

Timo Sirainen

9 Jun 2014 9 Jun '14

11:27 p.m.

I've actually been thinking about it almost since the beginning. It's just been annoying waste of space on my screen. And more importantly nowadays it's also breaking DKIM/DMARC signatures. So if somebody still uses Subject-based filtering it's about time to switch to List-ID header based filtering now.

Another thing I'm wondering about is if I should allow text/html parts, because removing them will also break the DKIM signatures. Or mainly I'd like to allow only multipart/alternative with text/plain + text/html, but I don't think I can configure Mailman to support that.

Show replies by date

Koenraad Lelong

10 Jun 10 Jun

5:51 p.m.

op 09-06-14 22:27, Timo Sirainen schreef:

...

I've actually been thinking about it almost since the beginning. It's just been annoying waste of space on my screen. And more importantly nowadays it's also breaking DKIM/DMARC signatures. So if somebody still uses Subject-based filtering it's about time to switch to List-ID header based filtering now.

Another thing I'm wondering about is if I should allow text/html parts, because removing them will also break the DKIM signatures. Or mainly I'd like to allow only multipart/alternative with text/plain + text/html, but I don't think I can configure Mailman to support that.

Hi,

Just wanted to ask what happened to "[Dovecot]" when I saw this mail. Could you tell me how to find the List_ID ? I looked at the raw mail, but I didn't find it :

some removed stuff and anonymized... Received: from wursti.dovecot.fi (wursti.dovecot.fi [87.106.245.223]) by mailbox.ace-electronics.be (Postfix) with SMTP id 808B2A0427 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:28:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wursti.dovecot.fi (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wursti.dovecot.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16BC421F32; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:27:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from talvi.dovecot.org (unknown [137.117.229.219]) by wursti.dovecot.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:27:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [100.90.112.97] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by talvi.dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0165E235C1; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 20:28:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by talvi.dovecot.org (Postfix, from userid 506) id B242523584; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 20:28:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wursti.dovecot.fi (unknown [87.106.245.223]) by talvi.dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51A3023584 for dovecot@dovecot.org; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 20:28:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.10.103] (cs181255018.pp.htv.fi [82.181.255.18]) by wursti.dovecot.fi (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6ABD221D30 for dovecot@dovecot.org; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:27:43 +0200 (CEST) From: Timo Sirainen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Subject tag [Dovecot] is gone Message-Id: A864F144-2962-4963-BEE6-5A6CBB738BDA@iki.fi Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 23:27:41 +0300 To: Dovecot Mailing List dovecot@dovecot.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 $1878.2$) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) Precedence: list Reply-To: Dovecot Mailing List dovecot@dovecot.org X-WatchGuard-Spam-ID: str=0001.0A0B0202.539618E6.008E,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-WatchGuard-Spam-Score: 0, clean; 0, no virus X-WatchGuard-Mail-Client-IP: 87.106.245.223 X-WatchGuard-Mail-From: dovecot-bounces@dovecot.org X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.3

I've actually been thinking about it almost since the beginning. It's = just been annoying waste of space on my screen. And more importantly = nowadays it's also breaking DKIM/DMARC signatures. So if somebody still = uses Subject-based filtering it's about time to switch to List-ID header = based filtering now.

Another thing I'm wondering about is if I should allow text/html parts, = because removing them will also break the DKIM signatures. Or mainly I'd = like to allow only multipart/alternative with text/plain + text/html, = but I don't think I can configure Mailman to support that.

Chris Young

6:04 p.m.

Gmail doesn't let me filter on message headers so I've updated my filter as follows

Before, my filter was SUBJECT:([Dovecot])

But now my filter is HAS THE WORDS:(dovecot.dovecot.org OR dovecot@dovecot.org)

On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Koenraad Lelong < dovecot@ace-electronics.be> wrote:

...

op 09-06-14 22:27, Timo Sirainen schreef:

I've actually been thinking about it almost since the beginning. It's

...
just been annoying waste of space on my screen. And more importantly nowadays it's also breaking DKIM/DMARC signatures. So if somebody still uses Subject-based filtering it's about time to switch to List-ID header based filtering now.

Another thing I'm wondering about is if I should allow text/html parts, because removing them will also break the DKIM signatures. Or mainly I'd like to allow only multipart/alternative with text/plain + text/html, but I don't think I can configure Mailman to support that.

Hi,

Just wanted to ask what happened to "[Dovecot]" when I saw this mail. Could you tell me how to find the List_ID ? I looked at the raw mail, but I didn't find it :

some removed stuff and anonymized... Received: from wursti.dovecot.fi (wursti.dovecot.fi [87.106.245.223]) by mailbox.ace-electronics.be (Postfix) with SMTP id 808B2A0427 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:28:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wursti.dovecot.fi (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wursti.dovecot.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16BC421F32; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:27:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from talvi.dovecot.org (unknown [137.117.229.219]) by wursti.dovecot.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:27:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [100.90.112.97] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by talvi.dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0165E235C1; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 20:28:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by talvi.dovecot.org (Postfix, from userid 506) id B242523584; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 20:28:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wursti.dovecot.fi (unknown [87.106.245.223]) by talvi.dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51A3023584 for dovecot@dovecot.org; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 20:28:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.10.103] (cs181255018.pp.htv.fi [82.181.255.18]) by wursti.dovecot.fi (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6ABD221D30 for dovecot@dovecot.org; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:27:43 +0200 (CEST) From: Timo Sirainen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Subject tag [Dovecot] is gone Message-Id: A864F144-2962-4963-BEE6-5A6CBB738BDA@iki.fi Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 23:27:41 +0300 To: Dovecot Mailing List dovecot@dovecot.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 $1878.2$) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) Precedence: list Reply-To: Dovecot Mailing List dovecot@dovecot.org X-WatchGuard-Spam-ID: str=0001.0A0B0202.539618E6.008E,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-WatchGuard-Spam-Score: 0, clean; 0, no virus X-WatchGuard-Mail-Client-IP: 87.106.245.223 X-WatchGuard-Mail-From: dovecot-bounces@dovecot.org X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.3

I've actually been thinking about it almost since the beginning. It's = just been annoying waste of space on my screen. And more importantly = nowadays it's also breaking DKIM/DMARC signatures. So if somebody still = uses Subject-based filtering it's about time to switch to List-ID header = based filtering now.

Another thing I'm wondering about is if I should allow text/html parts, = because removing them will also break the DKIM signatures. Or mainly I'd = like to allow only multipart/alternative with text/plain + text/html, =

but I don't think I can configure Mailman to support that.

Bernd Petrovitsch

6:15 p.m.

On Die, 2014-06-10 at 11:04 -0400, Chris Young wrote:

...

Gmail doesn't let me filter on message headers so I've updated my filter as follows

One more reason not to use it;-)

[...]

...

On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Koenraad Lelong < dovecot@ace-electronics.be> wrote: [...]

...
Just wanted to ask what happened to "[Dovecot]" when I saw this mail. Could you tell me how to find the List_ID ? I looked at the raw mail, but I didn't find it : [...] Reply-To: Dovecot Mailing List dovecot@dovecot.org

You could use that header (which actually should better be gone because reply-to munging considered harmful) or some other header field with "dovecot" somewhere.

FTR: I find ---- snip ---- List-Id: Dovecot Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: http://dovecot.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/dovecot, mailto:dovecot-request@dovecot.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://dovecot.org/pipermail/dovecot/ List-Post: mailto:dovecot@dovecot.org List-Help: mailto:dovecot-request@dovecot.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: http://dovecot.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dovecot, mailto:dovecot-request@dovecot.org?subject=subscribe ---- snip ---- in every mail header (=> RFC-2919). Is someone filtering headers on your side or the MUA just not displaying really all of them?

[...]

...

...
Another thing I'm wondering about is if I should allow text/html parts, = because removing them will also break the DKIM signatures. Or mainly I'd = like to allow only multipart/alternative with text/plain + text/html, =

FWIW text/html is actually overrated and - essentially - superfluous. Additionally it makes it even easier to fool the average user.

Kind regards, Bernd

Bernd Petrovitsch Email: bernd@sysprog.at

Koenraad Lelong

6:26 p.m.

op 10-06-14 17:15, Bernd Petrovitsch schreef:

...

---- snip ---- in every mail header (=> RFC-2919). Is someone filtering headers on your side or the MUA just not displaying really all of them?

I'm using Thunderbird as MUA. I'll look at the messages on the server.

Never noticed before there was something missing.

Thanks,

Koenraad.

Koenraad Lelong

6:37 p.m.

op 10-06-14 17:15, Bernd Petrovitsch schreef:

...

FTR: I find ---- snip ---- List-Id: Dovecot Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: http://dovecot.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/dovecot, mailto:dovecot-request@dovecot.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://dovecot.org/pipermail/dovecot/ List-Post: mailto:dovecot@dovecot.org List-Help: mailto:dovecot-request@dovecot.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: http://dovecot.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dovecot, mailto:dovecot-request@dovecot.org?subject=subscribe ---- snip ---- in every mail header (=> RFC-2919). Is someone filtering headers on your side or the MUA just not displaying really all of them?

I looked at some messages on the server. Not trace of those List-lines. I think I will get in touch with Watchguard to see if they remove those lines.

Thanks.

Koenraad

Koenraad Lelong

11 Jun 11 Jun

12:30 p.m.

op 10-06-14 17:37, Koenraad Lelong schreef:

...

I looked at some messages on the server. Not trace of those List-lines. I think I will get in touch with Watchguard to see if they remove those lines.

I subscribed to dovecot with a home-account. There I do have those RFC2919 lines. I also just "whitelisted" the dovecot-list on my Watchguard. I'll see if that changes anything. But I also filed a "bug-report" with Watchguard concerning this. You would think such a company should know better.

Koenraad.

Reindl Harald

1:03 p.m.

Am 11.06.2014 11:30, schrieb Koenraad Lelong:

...

op 10-06-14 17:37, Koenraad Lelong schreef:

...
I looked at some messages on the server. Not trace of those List-lines. I think I will get in touch with Watchguard to see if they remove those lines.

I subscribed to dovecot with a home-account. There I do have those RFC2919 lines. I also just "whitelisted" the dovecot-list on my Watchguard. I'll see if that changes anything. But I also filed a "bug-report" with Watchguard concerning this. You would think such a company should know better.

not uncommon, i saw anti-virus software mangle http traffic by spit random bytes before the http headers leading to ask the browser where to save the php-file

Cisco routers by default mangle DNS traffic, break zone transfers or even put befor all CNAME blocks a $TTL 0 line never appeared on the master until you disable DNS ALG for UDP and TCP

the bigger the company the more breakage

and that is why i said "you have crap on your side" what for whatever reason you took as a personal attack leaded to lure all the trolls out of their holes and react to a out-of-context quote

Jost Krieger

1:21 p.m.

On Wed Jun 11 12:03:24 2014, Reindl Harald wrote:

...

Cisco routers by default mangle DNS traffic, break zone transfers or even put befor all CNAME blocks a $TTL 0 line never appeared on the master until you disable DNS ALG for UDP and TCP

I believe that Cisco equipment will do such things, but I doubt it's the routers. Unless you plug a firewall card in.

...

the bigger the company the more breakage

A bit back on-topic here:

My impression is that Outlook 2013 will move mails from one (Dovecot) folder to the other by downloading the mail, messing up the headers and uploading again. This will break the antispam plugin, of course.

Can anyone confirm?

Yours Jost Krieger

| Jost.Krieger+sig@ruhr-uni-bochum.de Please help stamp out spam! | | Postmaster, JAPH, resident answer machine at RUB Comp. Center | | Sincere words are not sweet, sweet words are not sincere. | | Lao Tse, Tao Te King 81 |

Reindl Harald

1:46 p.m.

Am 11.06.2014 12:21, schrieb Jost Krieger:

...

On Wed Jun 11 12:03:24 2014, Reindl Harald wrote:

...
Cisco routers by default mangle DNS traffic, break zone transfers or even put befor all CNAME blocks a $TTL 0 line never appeared on the master until you disable DNS ALG for UDP and TCP

I believe that Cisco equipment will do such things, but I doubt it's the routers. Unless you plug a firewall card in

off-topic but as response "i thought they know better"

any bigger Cisco router i saw the last 8 years and even some smaller ones without rack-mount did this as default if NAT is enabled until you force the two commands below

the reason likely is that if you have a public DNS server you are asking from the LAN responding with a public address the Cisco translates the repsonse to the NAT-mapping instead just allow the public IP from the LAN, but that's no valid reason to mangle outgoing DNS traffic

additionally that may become "funny" if in the future DNSSEC is used

"no ip nat service alg udp dns" "no ip nat service alg tcp dns"

the UDP ALG leads to silently supress answers of PTR's with public IP's to the WAN, larger UDP responses (EDNS) times out as well as zone-transfers

the TCP ALG leads to a AFXR zone transfer looks like below while the master has only one TTL line with 86400 on top of the zone file, in that case only CNAMES are mangelded and after type the commands above all is fine

rhsoft.net. 86400 IN A 91.118.73.4 **.rhsoft.net. 0 IN CNAME **.rhsoft.net. **.rhsoft.net. 0 IN CNAME **.rhsoft.net. ................................ testserver.rhsoft.net. 86400 IN A 84.113.92.77 **.rhsoft.net. 0 IN CNAME **.rhsoft.net.

Nick Edwards

13 Jun 13 Jun

1:09 p.m.

On 6/11/14, Jost Krieger Jost.Krieger+dovecot@rub.de wrote:

...

On Wed Jun 11 12:03:24 2014, Reindl Harald wrote:

...
Cisco routers by default mangle DNS traffic, break zone transfers or even put befor all CNAME blocks a $TTL 0 line never appeared on the master until you disable DNS ALG for UDP and TCP

I believe that Cisco equipment will do such things, but I doubt it's the routers. Unless you plug a firewall card in.

I think he means junk like PIX, I've never seen a 7200, 7300, 10K, or any ASR do that.

Reindl Harald

1:17 p.m.

Am 13.06.2014 12:09, schrieb Nick Edwards:

...

On 6/11/14, Jost Krieger Jost.Krieger+dovecot@rub.de wrote:

...
On Wed Jun 11 12:03:24 2014, Reindl Harald wrote:

...
Cisco routers by default mangle DNS traffic, break zone transfers or even put befor all CNAME blocks a $TTL 0 line never appeared on the master until you disable DNS ALG for UDP and TCP

I believe that Cisco equipment will do such things, but I doubt it's the routers. Unless you plug a firewall card in.

think he means junk like PIX, I've never seen a 7200, 7300, 10K, or any ASR do that

http://www.2mul.com/c/en/us/products/routers/2921-integrated-services-router...

and even the small Cisco 6 years ago supplied by our ISP did the same - most likely you just don't realize it if you are not hoster of public nameservers and have one of them in front of and one behind the NAT

Reindl Harald

1:19 p.m.

Am 13.06.2014 12:17, schrieb Reindl Harald:

...

Am 13.06.2014 12:09, schrieb Nick Edwards:

...
On 6/11/14, Jost Krieger Jost.Krieger+dovecot@rub.de wrote:

...
On Wed Jun 11 12:03:24 2014, Reindl Harald wrote:

...
Cisco routers by default mangle DNS traffic, break zone transfers or even put befor all CNAME blocks a $TTL 0 line never appeared on the master until you disable DNS ALG for UDP and TCP

I believe that Cisco equipment will do such things, but I doubt it's the routers. Unless you plug a firewall card in.

think he means junk like PIX, I've never seen a 7200, 7300, 10K, or any ASR do that

http://www.2mul.com/c/en/us/products/routers/2921-integrated-services-router...

and even the small Cisco 6 years ago supplied by our ISP did the same - most likely you just don't realize it if you are not hoster of public nameservers and have one of them in front of and one behind the NAT

here you go: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/technologies/tk648/tk361/tk438/technologies_white...

and here you go to disable this dumb behavior: no ip nat service alg udp dns no ip nat service alg tcp dns

Reuben Farrelly

1:20 p.m.

On 13/06/2014 8:09 PM, Nick Edwards wrote:

...

On 6/11/14, Jost Krieger Jost.Krieger+dovecot@rub.de wrote:

...
On Wed Jun 11 12:03:24 2014, Reindl Harald wrote:

...
Cisco routers by default mangle DNS traffic, break zone transfers or even put befor all CNAME blocks a $TTL 0 line never appeared on the master until you disable DNS ALG for UDP and TCP

I believe that Cisco equipment will do such things, but I doubt it's the routers. Unless you plug a firewall card in.

I think he means junk like PIX, I've never seen a 7200, 7300, 10K, or any ASR do that.

Actually you're both incorrect - this isn't a PIX/ASA specific thing and it does work that way on IOS routers in certain configurations. A Cisco IOS router (800/1800/1900 etc) running recent code will do this if you have a PAT rule translating port 53 from outside to inside.

This isn't a configuration that is that common, and it is annoying when you run into it, but it's not something you can have happen "by accident" since you have to specifically configure port 53 to be NATted in to observe this behaviour. It's also easy to turn off (TBH I don't know why it's not off by default, but that's a separate matter).

It doesn't impact normal outbound/dynamic NAT which is what most people use.

I haven't tried 1:1 static NATs so can't verify if it works that way in that situation, though.

Reuben

Reindl Harald

1:25 p.m.

Am 13.06.2014 12:20, schrieb Reuben Farrelly:

...

On 13/06/2014 8:09 PM, Nick Edwards wrote:

...
On 6/11/14, Jost Krieger Jost.Krieger+dovecot@rub.de wrote:

...
On Wed Jun 11 12:03:24 2014, Reindl Harald wrote:

...
Cisco routers by default mangle DNS traffic, break zone transfers or even put befor all CNAME blocks a $TTL 0 line never appeared on the master until you disable DNS ALG for UDP and TCP

I believe that Cisco equipment will do such things, but I doubt it's the routers. Unless you plug a firewall card in.

I think he means junk like PIX, I've never seen a 7200, 7300, 10K, or any ASR do that.

Actually you're both incorrect - this isn't a PIX/ASA specific thing and it does work that way on IOS routers in certain configurations. A Cisco IOS router (800/1800/1900 etc) running recent code will do this if you have a PAT rule translating port 53 from outside to inside.

This isn't a configuration that is that common, and it is annoying when you run into it, but it's not something you can have happen "by accident" since you have to specifically configure port 53 to be NATted in to observe this behaviour. It's also easy to turn off (TBH I don't know why it's not off by default, but that's a separate matter).

It doesn't impact normal outbound/dynamic NAT which is what most people use.

I haven't tried 1:1 static NATs so can't verify if it works that way in that situation, though

we are running 1:1 static NAT and it is enabled by default in that situation that's what i am talking the whole time, nobody does single port-forwardings in a server environment

and *yes* you can have happen this "by accident" simply by have non Cisco hardware before with the same 1:1 NAT and then get a Cisco device due switch from bundeled DSL lines to glasfiber

Spyros Tsiolis

11 Jun 11 Jun

1:52 p.m.

Guys,

I think you were a bit harsh on Reindl.

It is my opinion that he is a productive member of this list and his views are valuable.

He just uses a bit stronger language. Something that I do sometimes.

I don't think he wanted to be rude with someone.

Just my opinion,

...

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 12:03:24 +0200 From: h.reindl@thelounge.net To: dovecot@dovecot.org Subject: Re: Subject tag [Dovecot] is gone

Am 11.06.2014 11:30, schrieb Koenraad Lelong:

...
op 10-06-14 17:37, Koenraad Lelong schreef:

...
I looked at some messages on the server. Not trace of those List-lines. I think I will get in touch with Watchguard to see if they remove those lines.

I subscribed to dovecot with a home-account. There I do have those RFC2919 lines. I also just "whitelisted" the dovecot-list on my Watchguard. I'll see if that changes anything. But I also filed a "bug-report" with Watchguard concerning this. You would think such a company should know better.

not uncommon, i saw anti-virus software mangle http traffic by spit random bytes before the http headers leading to ask the browser where to save the php-file

Cisco routers by default mangle DNS traffic, break zone transfers or even put befor all CNAME blocks a $TTL 0 line never appeared on the master until you disable DNS ALG for UDP and TCP

the bigger the company the more breakage

and that is why i said "you have crap on your side" what for whatever reason you took as a personal attack leaded to lure all the trolls out of their holes and react to a out-of-context quote

Nicolas KOWALSKI

10 Jun 10 Jun

6:30 p.m.

On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 11:04:28AM -0400, Chris Young wrote:

...

Gmail doesn't let me filter on message headers so I've updated my filter as follows

Yes it does. I use this: (list:dovecot OR to:dovecot)

It matches both mail received from the mailing-list and those I send to the mailing-list.

+1 for te subject tag removal :)

-- Nicolas

Nick Edwards

11 Jun 11 Jun

8:33 a.m.

"has the words" listid:dovecot.dovecot.org (exactly as written) seems to work well for long time

On 6/11/14, Chris Young mrvjtod@gmail.com wrote:

...

Gmail doesn't let me filter on message headers so I've updated my filter as follows

Before, my filter was SUBJECT:([Dovecot])

But now my filter is HAS THE WORDS:(dovecot.dovecot.org OR dovecot@dovecot.org)

On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Koenraad Lelong < dovecot@ace-electronics.be> wrote:

...
op 09-06-14 22:27, Timo Sirainen schreef:

I've actually been thinking about it almost since the beginning. It's

...
just been annoying waste of space on my screen. And more importantly nowadays it's also breaking DKIM/DMARC signatures. So if somebody still uses Subject-based filtering it's about time to switch to List-ID header based filtering now.

Another thing I'm wondering about is if I should allow text/html parts, because removing them will also break the DKIM signatures. Or mainly I'd like to allow only multipart/alternative with text/plain + text/html, but I don't think I can configure Mailman to support that.

Hi,

Just wanted to ask what happened to "[Dovecot]" when I saw this mail. Could you tell me how to find the List_ID ? I looked at the raw mail, but I didn't find it :

some removed stuff and anonymized... Received: from wursti.dovecot.fi (wursti.dovecot.fi [87.106.245.223]) by mailbox.ace-electronics.be (Postfix) with SMTP id 808B2A0427 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:28:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wursti.dovecot.fi (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wursti.dovecot.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16BC421F32; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:27:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from talvi.dovecot.org (unknown [137.117.229.219]) by wursti.dovecot.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:27:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [100.90.112.97] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by talvi.dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0165E235C1; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 20:28:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by talvi.dovecot.org (Postfix, from userid 506) id B242523584; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 20:28:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wursti.dovecot.fi (unknown [87.106.245.223]) by talvi.dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51A3023584 for dovecot@dovecot.org; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 20:28:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.10.103] (cs181255018.pp.htv.fi [82.181.255.18]) by wursti.dovecot.fi (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6ABD221D30 for dovecot@dovecot.org; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:27:43 +0200 (CEST) From: Timo Sirainen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Subject tag [Dovecot] is gone Message-Id: A864F144-2962-4963-BEE6-5A6CBB738BDA@iki.fi Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 23:27:41 +0300 To: Dovecot Mailing List dovecot@dovecot.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 $1878.2$) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) Precedence: list Reply-To: Dovecot Mailing List dovecot@dovecot.org X-WatchGuard-Spam-ID: str=0001.0A0B0202.539618E6.008E,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-WatchGuard-Spam-Score: 0, clean; 0, no virus X-WatchGuard-Mail-Client-IP: 87.106.245.223 X-WatchGuard-Mail-From: dovecot-bounces@dovecot.org X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.3

I've actually been thinking about it almost since the beginning. It's = just been annoying waste of space on my screen. And more importantly = nowadays it's also breaking DKIM/DMARC signatures. So if somebody still = uses Subject-based filtering it's about time to switch to List-ID header

based filtering now.

Another thing I'm wondering about is if I should allow text/html parts, = because removing them will also break the DKIM signatures. Or mainly I'd

like to allow only multipart/alternative with text/plain + text/html, =

but I don't think I can configure Mailman to support that.

Reindl Harald

10 Jun 10 Jun

6:12 p.m.

Am 10.06.2014 16:51, schrieb Koenraad Lelong:

...

op 09-06-14 22:27, Timo Sirainen schreef:

...
I've actually been thinking about it almost since the beginning. It's just been annoying waste of space on my screen. And more importantly nowadays it's also breaking DKIM/DMARC signatures. So if somebody still uses Subject-based filtering it's about time to switch to List-ID header based filtering now.

Another thing I'm wondering about is if I should allow text/html parts, because removing them will also break the DKIM signatures. Or mainly I'd like to allow only multipart/alternative with text/plain + text/html, but I don't think I can configure Mailman to support that.

besides that the envelope sender is "dovecot-bounces@dovecot.org" and To/Cc always "dovecot@dovecot.org" it's easy to filter that with Sieve, subject based filters are broken anyways

...

Just wanted to ask what happened to "[Dovecot]" when I saw this mail. Could you tell me how to find the List_ID ? I looked at the raw mail, but I didn't find it:

than you have crap software somewhere on your side

fix that
it breaks also reply-to-list function
it breaks threading
it breaks mailing lists
it must not happen at all

removing the list headers, look at the same i received and the message id which is the same

Received: from wursti.dovecot.fi (wursti.dovecot.fi [87.106.245.223]) by barracuda.thelounge.net with ESMTP id o8NXn7SF4noqMeUE for h.reindl@thelounge.net; Mon, 09 Jun 2014 22:28:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wursti.dovecot.fi (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wursti.dovecot.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0CE221F10; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:27:50 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on wursti.dovecot.fi X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.3.1 Received: from talvi.dovecot.org (unknown [137.117.229.219]) by wursti.dovecot.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:27:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [100.90.112.97] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by talvi.dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DED3F23585; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 20:28:41 +0000 (UTC) X-Original-To: dovecot@dovecot.org Delivered-To: dovecot@dovecot.org Received: by talvi.dovecot.org (Postfix, from userid 506) id B242523584; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 20:28:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wursti.dovecot.fi (unknown [87.106.245.223]) by talvi.dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51A3023584 for dovecot@dovecot.org; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 20:28:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.10.103] (cs181255018.pp.htv.fi [82.181.255.18]) by wursti.dovecot.fi (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6ABD221D30 for dovecot@dovecot.org; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:27:43 +0200 (CEST) From: Timo Sirainen tss@iki.fi Subject: Subject tag [Dovecot] is gone Message-Id: A864F144-2962-4963-BEE6-5A6CBB738BDA@iki.fi Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 23:27:41 +0300 To: Dovecot Mailing List dovecot@dovecot.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 $1878.2$) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) X-BeenThere: dovecot@dovecot.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: Dovecot Mailing List dovecot@dovecot.org List-Id: Dovecot Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: http://dovecot.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/dovecot, mailto:dovecot-request@dovecot.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://dovecot.org/pipermail/dovecot/ List-Post: mailto:dovecot@dovecot.org List-Help: mailto:dovecot-request@dovecot.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: http://dovecot.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dovecot, mailto:dovecot-request@dovecot.org?subject=subscribe Errors-To: dovecot-bounces@dovecot.org Sender: dovecot dovecot-bounces@dovecot.org Received-SPF: none (thelounge.net: dovecot-bounces@dovecot.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at thelounge.net Return-Path: dovecot-bounces@dovecot.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

...

some removed stuff and anonymized... Received: from wursti.dovecot.fi (wursti.dovecot.fi [87.106.245.223]) by mailbox.ace-electronics.be (Postfix) with SMTP id 808B2A0427 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:28:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wursti.dovecot.fi (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wursti.dovecot.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16BC421F32; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:27:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from talvi.dovecot.org (unknown [137.117.229.219]) by wursti.dovecot.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:27:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [100.90.112.97] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by talvi.dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0165E235C1; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 20:28:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by talvi.dovecot.org (Postfix, from userid 506) id B242523584; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 20:28:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wursti.dovecot.fi (unknown [87.106.245.223]) by talvi.dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51A3023584 for dovecot@dovecot.org; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 20:28:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.10.103] (cs181255018.pp.htv.fi [82.181.255.18]) by wursti.dovecot.fi (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6ABD221D30 for dovecot@dovecot.org; Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:27:43 +0200 (CEST) From: Timo Sirainen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Subject tag [Dovecot] is gone Message-Id: A864F144-2962-4963-BEE6-5A6CBB738BDA@iki.fi Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 23:27:41 +0300 To: Dovecot Mailing List dovecot@dovecot.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 $1878.2$) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) Precedence: list Reply-To: Dovecot Mailing List dovecot@dovecot.org X-WatchGuard-Spam-ID: str=0001.0A0B0202.539618E6.008E,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-WatchGuard-Spam-Score: 0, clean; 0, no virus X-WatchGuard-Mail-Client-IP: 87.106.245.223 X-WatchGuard-Mail-From: dovecot-bounces@dovecot.org X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.3

I've actually been thinking about it almost since the beginning. It's = just been annoying waste of space on my screen. And more importantly = nowadays it's also breaking DKIM/DMARC signatures. So if somebody still = uses Subject-based filtering it's about time to switch to List-ID header = based filtering now.

Another thing I'm wondering about is if I should allow text/html parts, = because removing them will also break the DKIM signatures. Or mainly I'd = like to allow only multipart/alternative with text/plain + text/html, = but I don't think I can configure Mailman to support that

Koenraad Lelong

6:23 p.m.

op 10-06-14 17:12, Reindl Harald schreef:

...

than you have crap software somewhere on your side

What did I do to get such reply ?

Koenraad

Luuk

6:40 p.m.

On 10-6-2014 17:23, Koenraad Lelong wrote:

...

op 10-06-14 17:12, Reindl Harald schreef:

...
...
than you have crap software somewhere on your side

What did I do to get such reply ?

Koenraad

Because you have crap software.... ;)

It's not caused by Thunderbird itself (it might be an add-on!)

I'm reading with thunderbird too, and in the headers of the firts post in this hread i see: List-Id: Dovecot Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: http://dovecot.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/dovecot, mailto:dovecot-request@dovecot.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://dovecot.org/pipermail/dovecot/ List-Post: mailto:dovecot@dovecot.org List-Help: mailto:dovecot-request@dovecot.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: http://dovecot.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dovecot, mailto:dovecot-request@dovecot.org?subject=subscribe Errors-To: dovecot-bounces@dovecot.org Sender: "dovecot" dovecot-bounces@dovecot.org

Reindl Harald

7:26 p.m.

Am 10.06.2014 17:23, schrieb Koenraad Lelong:

...

op 10-06-14 17:12, Reindl Harald schreef:

...
than you have crap software somewhere on your side

What did I do to get such reply?

are you a piece of software or why do you take "crap software" personally against yourself?

you should have read the rest of my answer something "smart" mainpulates messages you receive this may become a *serious* problem in case of signed messages

this is most likely also the reason you hit reply all because removing the list-headers makes the "reply-to-list" button in thunderbird non-functional

Nick Edwards

11 Jun 11 Jun

8:28 a.m.

Nothing. Reindel has always been an abusive troll

On 6/11/14, Koenraad Lelong dovecot@ace-electronics.be wrote:

...

op 10-06-14 17:12, Reindl Harald schreef:

...
...
than you have crap software somewhere on your side

What did I do to get such reply ?

Koenraad

Reindl Harald

11:20 a.m.

Am 11.06.2014 07:28, schrieb Nick Edwards:

...

Nothing. Reindel has always been an abusive troll

if somebody wants to feel absued he will find always a reason - calling software stripping headers out of mails is not a good one to feel so

so shut up until you can't distinguish between firt name and last name, write the last name even wrong and especially in case i abused nobody

...

On 6/11/14, Koenraad Lelong dovecot@ace-electronics.be wrote:

...
op 10-06-14 17:12, Reindl Harald schreef:

...
than you have crap software somewhere on your side

What did I do to get such reply ?

Frerich Raabe

11:51 a.m.

On 2014-06-10 17:23, Koenraad Lelong wrote:

...

op 10-06-14 17:12, Reindl Harald schreef:

...
than you have crap software somewhere on your side

What did I do to get such reply ?

Don't bother paying too much attention, Harald has been quite the primadonna ever since I joined this list. Pretty sure he's one of those fellows who are doing the 'grumpy curmudgeon' on the Internet but then turn out to be rather quiet/shy guys in real life. ;-)

Frerich

Professa Dementia

12:15 p.m.

On 6/11/2014 1:51 AM, Frerich Raabe wrote:

...

On 2014-06-10 17:23, Koenraad Lelong wrote:

...
op 10-06-14 17:12, Reindl Harald schreef:

...
than you have crap software somewhere on your side

What did I do to get such reply ?

Don't bother paying too much attention, Harald has been quite the primadonna ever since I joined this list. Pretty sure he's one of those fellows who are doing the 'grumpy curmudgeon' on the Internet but then turn out to be rather quiet/shy guys in real life. ;-)

If he bothers you, a suggestion to make your life simpler. Set up a filter to simply delete any messages from him before they get to your inbox.

Notice that most regulars, myself included, never reply to him. That is because we do not even see his messages except in someone else's reply to him. It really improves the quality, value and enjoyment of the list. Life is too short to put up with someone who is abrasive, obnoxious and rarely contributes anything helpful.

Dem

Reindl Harald

12:20 p.m.

Am 11.06.2014 11:15, schrieb Professa Dementia:

...

On 6/11/2014 1:51 AM, Frerich Raabe wrote:

...
On 2014-06-10 17:23, Koenraad Lelong wrote:

...
op 10-06-14 17:12, Reindl Harald schreef:

...
than you have crap software somewhere on your side

What did I do to get such reply ?

Don't bother paying too much attention, Harald has been quite the primadonna ever since I joined this list. Pretty sure he's one of those fellows who are doing the 'grumpy curmudgeon' on the Internet but then turn out to be rather quiet/shy guys in real life. ;-)

If he bothers you, a suggestion to make your life simpler. Set up a filter to simply delete any messages from him before they get to your inbox.

Notice that most regulars, myself included, never reply to him. That is because we do not even see his messages except in someone else's reply to him.

and that is why people like you should simply *shut up* instead react on a *one line quote* stripped all helpful informations including the complete context

so you see *one line* of a long reply because you filter out anything else: so *shut up at all*

Gene Heskett

3:40 p.m.

On Wednesday 11 June 2014 05:20:47 Reindl Harald did opine And Gene did reply:

...

Am 11.06.2014 11:15, schrieb Professa Dementia:

...
On 6/11/2014 1:51 AM, Frerich Raabe wrote:

...
On 2014-06-10 17:23, Koenraad Lelong wrote:

...
op 10-06-14 17:12, Reindl Harald schreef:

...
than you have crap software somewhere on your side

What did I do to get such reply ?

Don't bother paying too much attention, Harald has been quite the primadonna ever since I joined this list. Pretty sure he's one of those fellows who are doing the 'grumpy curmudgeon' on the Internet but then turn out to be rather quiet/shy guys in real life. ;-)

If he bothers you, a suggestion to make your life simpler. Set up a filter to simply delete any messages from him before they get to your inbox.

Notice that most regulars, myself included, never reply to him. That is because we do not even see his messages except in someone else's reply to him.

and that is why people like you should simply *shut up* instead react on a *one line quote* stripped all helpful informations including the complete context

so you see *one line* of a long reply because you filter out anything else: so *shut up at all*

If this is the best you can do in terms of a helpful reply, I'll never see your msgs again.

PLONK

Cheers, Gene Heskett

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS

Mark Sapiro

10 Jun 10 Jun

8:41 p.m.

On 06/09/2014 01:27 PM, Timo Sirainen wrote:

...

Another thing I'm wondering about is if I should allow text/html parts, because removing them will also break the DKIM signatures. Or mainly I'd like to allow only multipart/alternative with text/plain + text/html, but I don't think I can configure Mailman to support that.

Yes you can, well sort of - see below, but note that in addition to content filtering, the addition of msg_footer will probably break DKIM signatures.

If you put the following in pass_mime_types

multipart/alternative text/plain text/html

and set both collapse_alternatives and convert_html_to_plaintext to No, multipart messages which are not multipart/mixed (e.g., multipart/mixed, multipart/related and multipart/signed) will be handled according to filter_action. Messages which are multipart/alternative with only text/plain and text/html alternatives will be passed unchanged by content filtering as will single part messages of type text/plain or text/html.

Potential problems with this are:

you may not want single part text/html on the list.
some people sign their posts.

Because of 2), you need to add multipart/signed and application/pgp-signature to pass_mime_types, but that complicates the content filtering scenario because now a message with a structure like

multipart/signed text/plain application/pgp-signature image/jpeg

will be accepted by the list with the image/jpeg part removed rather than handled according to filter_action.

-- Mark Sapiro mark@msapiro.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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List overview

28 comments

15 participants

participants (15)

Bernd Petrovitsch
Chris Young
Frerich Raabe
Gene Heskett
Jost Krieger
Koenraad Lelong
Luuk
Mark Sapiro
Nick Edwards
Nicolas KOWALSKI
Professa Dementia
Reindl Harald
Reuben Farrelly
Spyros Tsiolis
Timo Sirainen