Re: [Dovecot] Mail.app message numbering for deleted messages
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Jesse Chan-Norris wrote:
On Jan 22, 2006, at 6:44 AM, Timo Sirainen wrote:
On Mon, 2006-01-16 at 18:29 -0500, jcn-dovecot@pith.org wrote: I'm having a strange problem that appeared when I upgraded from�.99something to 1.0alpha3 and then disappeared for a while and then� re-appeared when I upgraded to 1.0alpha5.
I am using mbox and IMAP in Apple's Mail.app to read my mail. When I� delete a message in Mail.app, the message gets marked as deleted in the� spool and it disappears from the mail listing in Mail. However, the� message number does not change until I either manually flush the deleted� messages through mail, or I go offline which deletes the messages from the� spool.
I have mbox_lazy_writes set to 'no' but this didn't seem to have any� effect on the behavior. I never saw this type of behavior with UW-IMAP� either, which is what I migrated from.
What do you mean by "message number doesn't change"?
To me this sounds like it all works as it should. Deleted messages are really deleted only until expunge command is given, which is done when you manually select "purge expunged messages" command or whatever it was called in Mail.
Maybe before with UW-IMAP you just had some "automatically expunge messages" option set?
I don't think that UW-IMAP was expunging messages because I could open up the mbox with pine and see all of the messages flagged as "Deleted" but not yet expunged. And when I try a similar test with Fastmail.fm (delete the message in Mail, then check using the web interface) the mail is marked as deleted in the web interface and does not show up in Mail.app but the messages are re-numbered appropriately.
Granted, I have no idea how Mail.app does its numbering (especially since Thunderbird doesn't have message numbering), but is it possible that there's more information that the IMAP server should be sending back that Dovecot isn't?
I've attached a screenshot from my Mail.app that shows the numbering issue. The gaps in the message sequence are where a deleted (but not expunged) message was.
jcn
On Mon, 2006-01-23 at 14:00 -0500, Jesse Chan-Norris wrote:
Maybe before with UW-IMAP you just had some "automatically expunge messages" option set?
I don't think that UW-IMAP was expunging messages because I could open up the mbox with pine and see all of the messages flagged as "Deleted" but not yet expunged. And when I try a similar test with Fastmail.fm (delete the message in Mail, then check using the web interface) the mail is marked as deleted in the web interface and does not show up in Mail.app but the messages are re-numbered appropriately.
Granted, I have no idea how Mail.app does its numbering (especially since Thunderbird doesn't have message numbering), but is it possible that there's more information that the IMAP server should be sending back that Dovecot isn't?
After trying this out for a while, I think I know what causes it. The difference with Dovecot and UW-IMAP is that UW-IMAP allows only a single connection to the mailbox (each new connection killing the old one), while Dovecot allows multiple.
Mail.app then goes and creates multiple connections to the mailbox, and after deleting the messages, it uses those different connections to fetch the mails. Then it somehow gets internally confused and starts renumbering the mails.
Quoting Timo Sirainen <tss@iki.fi>:
After trying this out for a while, I think I know what causes it. The difference with Dovecot and UW-IMAP is that UW-IMAP allows only a single connection to the mailbox (each new connection killing the old one), while Dovecot allows multiple.
Actually, it only allows one write-enabled connection to the mailbox. You can open as many read-only connections as you want, but only one write connection. A second write connection will kill the first write connection.
-- Eric Rostetter The Department of Physics The University of Texas at Austin
Go Longhorns!
On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 18:52:20 +0200, Timo Sirainen <tss@iki.fi> wrote:
On Mon, 2006-01-23 at 14:00 -0500, Jesse Chan-Norris wrote:
Maybe before with UW-IMAP you just had some "automatically expunge messages" option set?
I don't think that UW-IMAP was expunging messages because I could open up the mbox with pine and see all of the messages flagged as "Deleted" but not yet expunged. And when I try a similar test with Fastmail.fm (delete the message in Mail, then check using the web interface) the mail is marked as deleted in the web interface and does not show up in Mail.app but the messages are re-numbered appropriately.
Granted, I have no idea how Mail.app does its numbering (especially since Thunderbird doesn't have message numbering), but is it possible that there's more information that the IMAP server should be sending back that Dovecot isn't?
After trying this out for a while, I think I know what causes it. The difference with Dovecot and UW-IMAP is that UW-IMAP allows only a single connection to the mailbox (each new connection killing the old one), while Dovecot allows multiple.
Mail.app then goes and creates multiple connections to the mailbox, and after deleting the messages, it uses those different connections to fetch the mails. Then it somehow gets internally confused and starts renumbering the mails.
In the midst of looking at another problem in Mac mail, I did a network dump on the actual non-ssl interaction of mac mail. I did not see any cases where mac mail actually opened simultaneous connections to the same box. It did open INBOX more than once, but only after it had closed the previous.
That said, I have pretty stong proof that Mac mail is seriously buggy (deleting large blocks of messages cause hangs, same thing with message moves), and I would not recommend anyone using it until Apple updates the code.
-- Anthony Kay University Computing Center (541) 346-1719 GPG Fingerprint: B0DB D46A 60AF FAE7 A94A 5075 0CB4 4D88 9F4F 7F09
The camera makes everyone a tourist in other people's reality, and eventually in one's own.
Susan Sontag
participants (4)
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Eric Rostetter
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Jesse Chan-Norris
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Timo Sirainen
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Tony Kay