Re: [Dovecot] Cyrus vs Dovecot
Hello:
I think you are missing a point which is most important, i.e., what type of support Cyrus vs Dovecot offers. In my experience:
Cyrus = 0 Dovecot = 100
My personal experience.
Kirt
kbajwa wrote:
Hello:
I think you are missing a point which is most important, i.e., what type of support Cyrus vs Dovecot offers. In my experience:
Cyrus = 0 Dovecot = 100
My personal experience.
Don't forget that although for some reason he doesn't widely advertise it - Timo is also for hire if you have special requirements or need a bug fixing even faster. He is very good value and I am not sure why he doesn't say more about his services more publicly...
If you had a requirement for a custom feature then please do approach him with your cheque book open and request a feature - I think you will have a very good experience
Commercial support can be a real boon for some companies so if this is you then be sure to ask
Ed W
kbajwa a écrit :
Hello:
I think you are missing a point which is most important, i.e., what type of support Cyrus vs Dovecot offers. In my experience:
Cyrus = 0 Dovecot = 100
My personal experience.
Kirt
I guess you've right but I can't post this answer at Cyrus mailing list. I'm just trying to have my own opinion of imap server and I already have sarcastic answer on the cyrus mailing list !
regards
Mathieu Kretchner mathieu.kretchner@sophia.inria.fr wrote:
kbajwa a écrit :
Cyrus = 0 Dovecot = 100
I guess you've right but I can't post this answer at Cyrus mailing list. I'm just trying to have my own opinion of imap server and I already have sarcastic answer on the cyrus mailing list !
Stop. What's this?
a) crossposing content to the dovecot mailing list b) talking about "sarcastic" answers when users try to help you saying that migrating from an old cyrus release to a new one is easier then migrating to a new system? c) many users here have described their running configuration to help you. d) starting an advocacy war?
What are you trying to do?
Pascal Gienger a écrit :
Mathieu Kretchner mathieu.kretchner@sophia.inria.fr wrote:
kbajwa a écrit :
Cyrus = 0 Dovecot = 100
I guess you've right but I can't post this answer at Cyrus mailing list. I'm just trying to have my own opinion of imap server and I already have sarcastic answer on the cyrus mailing list !
Stop. What's this?
a) crossposing content to the dovecot mailing list b) talking about "sarcastic" answers when users try to help you saying that migrating from an old cyrus release to a new one is easier then migrating to a new system? c) many users here have described their running configuration to help you. d) starting an advocacy war?
What are you trying to do?
Sorry but your manners on cyrus list have been disrespectful and hurt me... I do not want an "advocacy war" so I'll stop here this discussion and focus on technical aspect.
Mathieu Kretchner wrote:
kbajwa a écrit :
Hello:
I think you are missing a point which is most important, i.e., what type of support Cyrus vs Dovecot offers. In my experience:
Cyrus = 0 Dovecot = 100
My personal experience.
Kirt
I guess you've right but I can't post this answer at Cyrus mailing list. I'm just trying to have my own opinion of imap server and I already have sarcastic answer on the cyrus mailing list !
Reading the cyrus list I think the above quote might be a bit unfair and accidently crossposted?
In any case I only have experience of dovecot and it's used in some larger installs such as the old webmail.us, now 1&1 (I believe). I think your installation is probably large enough that you might want to do a trial migration of a couple of accounts and see if migration is a problem. Certainly for all new servers I would STRONGLY recommend some sort of virtualisation option (I use linux vservers, lots of other options available). This makes it fantasically easy to boot up (say) three instances of your target software installation, perhaps all with different configuration options and compare them easily. I used this as a solution to migrate from Courier and also recently when I was migrating from 32bit to 64bit guests - essentially you spin up your new guest, get it all ready, test it like made and then in a couple of seconds you can down the live guest and boot up the new guest. I separate out all signficant data from the guest partition so try to keep the actual installations under a couple hundred MB each (even that feels bloated, but hey) and this makes it simple to boot up a copy of a guest to test some change without having to copy too much
I personally picked dovecot because I worried about the horror stories I read about with cyrus. However, both are clearly the two best options available for opensource solutions right now and both are used in large installations so you should be very happy with either.
With regards to functionality it would appear (I don't use cyrus) that cyrus has more "admin tools" to do stuff, but Dovecot is built to be more "hackable", for example you can easily run a script before each (imap, etc) login and hence do some very advanced stuff through that route. Plugins also appear to be quite easy to write to extend dovecot in new directions
On the cyrus list they mentioned email retention policies. Now some people are going to say that this is really a job for the MTA (postfix/sendmail/etc). However, you have some plugins which might get you partly towards solving that need, but nothing out of the box which would give you a cast iron (stand up in court) kind of archiving control. However, you can get close I think
Ed W
On Aug 13, 2008, at 12:44 PM, Ed W wrote:
On the cyrus list they mentioned email retention policies. Now some
people are going to say that this is really a job for the MTA
(postfix/sendmail/etc). However, you have some plugins which might
get you partly towards solving that need, but nothing out of the box
which would give you a cast iron (stand up in court) kind of
archiving control. However, you can get close I think
I noticed someone mentioned delayed expunges, which is implemented
nearly identically for Dovecot using lazy-expunge plugin. Although
with maildir that requires renaming the files elsewhere while Cyrus is
able to just leave the files where they are. I'll probably implement
the same thing for dbox format some day.
Ed W a écrit :
Mathieu Kretchner wrote:
kbajwa a écrit :
Hello:
I think you are missing a point which is most important, i.e., what type of support Cyrus vs Dovecot offers. In my experience:
Cyrus = 0 Dovecot = 100
My personal experience.
Kirt
I guess you've right but I can't post this answer at Cyrus mailing list. I'm just trying to have my own opinion of imap server and I already have sarcastic answer on the cyrus mailing list !
Reading the cyrus list I think the above quote might be a bit unfair and accidently crossposted?
In any case I only have experience of dovecot and it's used in some larger installs such as the old webmail.us, now 1&1 (I believe). I think your installation is probably large enough that you might want to do a trial migration of a couple of accounts and see if migration is a problem.
I'm trying to migrate my own account from cyrus to dovecot with the 2 tools which seems to fit the most my needs :
cyrus2courier : Work fast and well but I must use cyrus2courier-1.5.ts and I have 2 problems with it : falg unseen (or seen if I want) for all e-mail / Sub folders of Inbox are invisibles (I see them on the File System) !
imapsync : Must add a transition configuration to dovecot in order to have user passdb file (or master user) but once done it's ok and work correctly. I've just tested a transition and I'm happy to see it keeps all flags (seen/unseen too) and timestamp but as cyrus2courier, I can't see my inbox sub folders although I could see them (full) on the File System?
Certainly for all new servers I would STRONGLY recommend some sort of virtualisation option (I use linux vservers, lots of other options available). This makes it fantasically easy to boot up (say) three instances of your target software installation, perhaps all with different configuration options and compare them easily. I used this as a solution to migrate from Courier and also recently when I was migrating from 32bit to 64bit guests - essentially you spin up your new guest, get it all ready, test it like made and then in a couple of seconds you can down the live guest and boot up the new guest. I separate out all signficant data from the guest partition so try to keep the actual installations under a couple hundred MB each (even that feels bloated, but hey) and this makes it simple to boot up a copy of a guest to test some change without having to copy too much
I personally picked dovecot because I worried about the horror stories I read about with cyrus. However, both are clearly the two best options available for opensource solutions right now and both are used in large installations so you should be very happy with either.
With regards to functionality it would appear (I don't use cyrus) that cyrus has more "admin tools" to do stuff, but Dovecot is built to be more "hackable", for example you can easily run a script before each (imap, etc) login and hence do some very advanced stuff through that route. Plugins also appear to be quite easy to write to extend dovecot in new directions
On the cyrus list they mentioned email retention policies. Now some people are going to say that this is really a job for the MTA (postfix/sendmail/etc). However, you have some plugins which might get you partly towards solving that need, but nothing out of the box which would give you a cast iron (stand up in court) kind of archiving control. However, you can get close I think
Ed W
- Mathieu Kretchner mathieu.kretchner@sophia.inria.fr:
Ed W a écrit :
Mathieu Kretchner wrote:
kbajwa a écrit :
Hello:
I think you are missing a point which is most important, i.e., what type of support Cyrus vs Dovecot offers. In my experience:
Cyrus = 0 Dovecot = 100
My personal experience.
Kirt
I guess you've right but I can't post this answer at Cyrus mailing list. I'm just trying to have my own opinion of imap server and I already have sarcastic answer on the cyrus mailing list !
Reading the cyrus list I think the above quote might be a bit unfair and accidently crossposted?
In any case I only have experience of dovecot and it's used in some larger installs such as the old webmail.us, now 1&1 (I believe). I think your installation is probably large enough that you might want to do a trial migration of a couple of accounts and see if migration is a problem.
I'm trying to migrate my own account from cyrus to dovecot with the 2 tools which seems to fit the most my needs :
cyrus2courier : Work fast and well but I must use cyrus2courier-1.5.ts and I have 2 problems with it : falg unseen (or seen if I want) for all e-mail / Sub folders of Inbox are invisibles (I see them on the File System) !
imapsync : Must add a transition configuration to dovecot in order to have user passdb file (or master user) but once done it's ok and work correctly. I've just tested a transition and I'm happy to see it keeps all flags (seen/unseen too) and timestamp but as cyrus2courier, I can't see my inbox sub folders although I could see them (full) on the File System?
If you serve Outlook Clients and use imapsynv check that they don't see all mails with the same delivery date. There's a script on the imapsync website that fixes this problem.
p@rick
-- state of mind Agentur für Kommunikation, Design und Softwareentwicklung
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In any case I only have experience of dovecot and it's used in some larger installs such as the old webmail.us, now 1&1 (I believe). I think your installation is probably large enough that you might want to do a trial migration of a couple of accounts and see if migration is a problem.
I'm trying to migrate my own account from cyrus to dovecot with the 2 tools which seems to fit the most my needs :cyrus2courier : Work fast and well but I must use cyrus2courier-1.5.ts and I have 2 problems with it : falg unseen (or seen if I want) for all e-mail / Sub folders of Inbox are invisibles (I see them on the File System) !
imapsync : Must add a transition configuration to dovecot in order to have user passdb file (or master user) but once done it's ok and work correctly. I've just tested a transition and I'm happy to see it keeps all flags (seen/unseen too) and timestamp but as cyrus2courier, I can't see my inbox sub folders although I could see them (full) on the File System?
If you serve Outlook Clients and use imapsynv check that they don't see all mails with the same delivery date. There's a script on the imapsync website that fixes this problem.
p@rick
We are using thunderbird here, but I'm glad to have your advice.
On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 10:42:49 +0200, Mathieu Kretchner mathieu.kretchner@sophia.inria.fr wrote:
Ed W a écrit :
Mathieu Kretchner wrote:
kbajwa a écrit :
Hello:
I think you are missing a point which is most important, i.e., what type of support Cyrus vs Dovecot offers. In my experience:
Cyrus = 0 Dovecot = 100
My personal experience.
Kirt
I guess you've right but I can't post this answer at Cyrus mailing list. I'm just trying to have my own opinion of imap server and I already have sarcastic answer on the cyrus mailing list !
Reading the cyrus list I think the above quote might be a bit unfair and
accidently crossposted?
In any case I only have experience of dovecot and it's used in some larger installs such as the old webmail.us, now 1&1 (I believe). I think your installation is probably large enough that you might want to do a trial migration of a couple of accounts and see if migration is a problem.
I'm trying to migrate my own account from cyrus to dovecot with the 2 tools which seems to fit the most my needs :
cyrus2courier : Work fast and well but I must use cyrus2courier-1.5.ts and I have 2 problems with it : falg unseen (or seen if I want) for all e-mail / Sub folders of Inbox are invisibles (I see them on the File System) !
imapsync : Must add a transition configuration to dovecot in order to have user passdb file (or master user) but once done it's ok and work correctly. I've just tested a transition and I'm happy to see it keeps all flags (seen/unseen too) and timestamp but as cyrus2courier, I can't see my inbox sub folders although I could see them (full) on the File System? You need to subscribe to the folders on the new server.
Certainly for all new servers I would STRONGLY recommend some sort of virtualisation option (I use linux vservers, lots of other options available). This makes it fantasically easy to boot up (say) three instances of your target software installation, perhaps all with different configuration options and compare them easily. I used this as
a solution to migrate from Courier and also recently when I was migrating from 32bit to 64bit guests - essentially you spin up your new guest, get it all ready, test it like made and then in a couple of seconds you can down the live guest and boot up the new guest. I separate out all signficant data from the guest partition so try to keep
the actual installations under a couple hundred MB each (even that feels
bloated, but hey) and this makes it simple to boot up a copy of a guest to test some change without having to copy too much
I personally picked dovecot because I worried about the horror stories I
read about with cyrus. However, both are clearly the two best options available for opensource solutions right now and both are used in large installations so you should be very happy with either.
With regards to functionality it would appear (I don't use cyrus) that cyrus has more "admin tools" to do stuff, but Dovecot is built to be more "hackable", for example you can easily run a script before each (imap, etc) login and hence do some very advanced stuff through that route. Plugins also appear to be quite easy to write to extend dovecot in new directions
On the cyrus list they mentioned email retention policies. Now some people are going to say that this is really a job for the MTA (postfix/sendmail/etc). However, you have some plugins which might get you partly towards solving that need, but nothing out of the box which would give you a cast iron (stand up in court) kind of archiving control. However, you can get close I think
Ed W
On 13 Aug 2008, at 10:31, kbajwa wrote:
I think you are missing a point which is most important, i.e., what
type of support Cyrus vs Dovecot offers. In my experience:Cyrus = 0 Dovecot = 100
As someone who answers many help requests for cyrus (and I'm very far
from the only one), I can honestly say I've never seen a requests
from you. Perhaps you've had a lot of occasion to ask for help with
Dovecot. I'm happy to hear you've gotten that help. Community is a
lot of what open source software is about. As for your experience
with the cyrus imapd community, perhaps your sample size is too small.
Or perhaps you're thinking of paid support? Because I know very well
that you can get that for cyrus imap.
:wes
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 01:07:34PM -0400, Wesley Craig wrote:
On 13 Aug 2008, at 10:31, kbajwa wrote:
I think you are missing a point which is most important, i.e., what
type of support Cyrus vs Dovecot offers. In my experience:Cyrus = 0 Dovecot = 100
As someone who answers many help requests for cyrus (and I'm very far
from the only one), I can honestly say I've never seen a requests
from you. Perhaps you've had a lot of occasion to ask for help with
Dovecot. I'm happy to hear you've gotten that help. Community is a
lot of what open source software is about. As for your experience
with the cyrus imapd community, perhaps your sample size is too small.
Yeah, there are a few of us here answering help requests, and even helping debugging in some cases. I'd be interested to see where that '0' comes from too.
Still, I think Cyrus and Dovecot are the best two imap servers out there, so it's going to be a question of which integrates best with your usage pattern. For a small server, starting with no experience in either, I would probably choose Dovecot. Now that I know Cyrus inside out, back to front, warts and all - well, I'd choose Cyrus because I know how to make it play nice. It's more of a "total system" in itself though, that you write support stuff around. Dovecot integrates more with other tools in a unix-daemon'y way.
Enjoy,
Bron ( now if someone came along with a compelling competitior for SASL... )
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008, Wesley Craig wrote:
On 13 Aug 2008, at 10:31, kbajwa wrote:
I think you are missing a point which is most important, i.e., what type of support Cyrus vs Dovecot offers. In my experience:
Cyrus = 0 Dovecot = 100
As someone who answers many help requests for cyrus (and I'm very far from the only one), I can honestly say I've never seen a requests from you. Perhaps you've had a lot of occasion to ask for help with Dovecot. I'm happy to hear you've gotten that help. Community is a lot of what open source software is about. As for your experience with the cyrus imapd community, perhaps your sample size is too small.
Or perhaps you're thinking of paid support? Because I know very well that you can get that for cyrus imap.
can you provide links to where from?
David Lang
participants (10)
-
Bron Gondwana
-
David Lang
-
Ed W
-
kbajwa
-
martijn＠youngguns.nl
-
Mathieu Kretchner
-
Pascal Gienger
-
Patrick Ben Koetter
-
Timo Sirainen
-
Wesley Craig