[Dovecot] Not understanding namespaces
I have been diligently reading about namespace in the DC doc and what I
can find in Google. Like the blind men and the elephant, I see the
nature of some individual bits of namespace, some syntax and the overall
purpose (overriding defaults and providing extensions), but I don't see
the whole thing and how it is used.
I am looking to do some maildir testing in what is a mbox default
system, so I thought to employ namespace to do so.
I see that namespace(s) can be defined in dovecot.conf and I see that it
can be defined in TBird (under ServerSettings, Advanced Account
Settings), but it isn't clear to me how they are made to work together.
Some questions:
- Is it that you can define multiple namespaces in dovecot.conf and then specify which of these you use in the TBird server settings?
- What is the syntax of the TBird namespace specification?
-- ==== Once upon a time, the Internet was a friendly, neighbors-helping-neighbors small town, and no one locked their doors. Now it's like an apartment in Bed-Stuy: you need three heavy duty pick-proof locks, one of those braces that goes from the lock to the floor, and bars on the windows.... ==== Stewart Dean, Unix System Admin, Bard College, New York 12504 sdean@bard.edu voice: 845-758-7475, fax: 845-758-7035
On 29.1.2010, at 22.25, Stewart Dean wrote:
- Is it that you can define multiple namespaces in dovecot.conf and then specify which of these you use in the TBird server settings?
- What is the syntax of the TBird namespace specification?
Maybe your main confusion comes from Thunderbird's settings. It has almost nothing to do with Dovecot's namespaces. The namespace configuration in TB is mostly a workaround for some servers.
I guess you've read http://wiki.dovecot.org/Namespaces?
Timo Sirainen wrote:
Maybe your main confusion comes from Thunderbird's settings. It has almost nothing to do with Dovecot's namespaces. Golly! <mutter muttermutter>
The namespace configuration in TB is mostly a workaround for some servers.
I guess you've read http://wiki.dovecot.org/Namespaces?
Again and again until I have a flat spot on my forehead from banging my head against the wall. What's there is perfectly understandable as far as it goes, but I'm having trouble with the larger context, things like:
- How does a user (or client automagic) select or access among multiple namespaces?
- Can they select more than one namespace, can they select from a hierachy, ex, could I have a mbox namespace first and if it's not found, fall down the hierarchy to a Maildir namespace
-- Users have been complaining that their password is broken, so... We now offer Grade 5 & 10 Industrial Strength passwords of high-tensile strength alloy steel and titanium......
Stewart Dean, Unix System Admin, Bard College, New York 12504 sdean@bard.edu voice: 845-758-7475, fax: 845-758-7035
On Fri, 2010-01-29 at 16:18 -0500, Stewart Dean wrote:
Timo Sirainen wrote:
Maybe your main confusion comes from Thunderbird's settings. It has almost nothing to do with Dovecot's namespaces. Golly! <mutter muttermutter>
The namespace configuration in TB is mostly a workaround for some servers.
I guess you've read http://wiki.dovecot.org/Namespaces?
Again and again until I have a flat spot on my forehead from banging my head against the wall. What's there is perfectly understandable as far as it goes, but I'm having trouble with the larger context, things like:
- How does a user (or client automagic) select or access among multiple namespaces?
Typically clients are stupid and they don't understand namespaces at all. So Dovecot's namespaces are made to be pretty much transparent to clients. So for example if you had namespaces:
- prefix = ""
- prefix = "foo/"
- prefix = "bar/"
All all of them had list=yes, then the mailboxes in 2) namespace would simply show up as children of "foo" mailbox. And 3) namespace would show up as children of "bar". Client wouldn't even know that they're in different namespaces.
- Can they select more than one namespace, can they select from a hierachy, ex, could I have a mbox namespace first and if it's not found, fall down the hierarchy to a Maildir namespace
In theory, yes, but in practice you shouldn't think of it that way. Just think of namespaces as a way to tell Dovecot to access mails from more than one location. Or in migration cases maybe to create aliases to other namespaces for clients with "bad" namespace settings.
Also in any case INBOX must always point to a single mailbox in a single namespace. There can be only one namespace in dovecot.conf with inbox=yes.
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:26:40 +0200 Timo Sirainen tss@iki.fi articulated:
Maybe we need a: "Namespaces for Dummies" books. Seriously, I am surprised that someone has not written one all ready. There is a "Getting Your Book Published for Dummies (Paperback)" available. Perhaps I will purchase it and then (hopefully with Timo's help) publish a complete "Dovecot for Dummies" paperback. It might even help fund the Dovecot project.
Just my 2¢.
-- Jerry gesbbb@yahoo.com
|::::======= |::::======= |=========== |=========== |
O give me a home,
Where the buffalo roam,
Where the deer and the antelope play.
Where seldom is heard,
A discouraging word,
Because what can an antelope say?On Sat, 2010-01-30 at 08:10 -0500, Jerry wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:26:40 +0200 Timo Sirainen tss@iki.fi articulated:
Maybe we need a: "Namespaces for Dummies" books.
I didn't realize namespaces were so difficult to understand for many people. I'll see if I can get the wiki page updated to describe them better.
Seriously, I am surprised that someone has not written one all ready. There is a "Getting Your Book Published for Dummies (Paperback)" available. Perhaps I will purchase it and then (hopefully with Timo's help) publish a complete "Dovecot for Dummies" paperback. It might even help fund the Dovecot project.
Dovecot book(s) would be nice too.
On 01/31/10 00:35, Timo Sirainen wrote:
On Sat, 2010-01-30 at 08:10 -0500, Jerry wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:26:40 +0200 Timo Sirainentss@iki.fi articulated:
Maybe we need a: "Namespaces for Dummies" books.
I didn't realize namespaces were so difficult to understand for many people. I'll see if I can get the wiki page updated to describe them better.
Honestly, I thought I understood them, and then tried to implement them... and found the behavior belied my understanding.
Then again, I'm starting to wonder if I got something else wrong, because the way Timo explains it is how I understood it :/
Seriously, I am surprised that someone has not written one all ready. There is a "Getting Your Book Published for Dummies (Paperback)" available. Perhaps I will purchase it and then (hopefully with Timo's help) publish a complete "Dovecot for Dummies" paperback. It might even help fund the Dovecot project.
Dovecot book(s) would be nice too.
I'm happy to proof read :)
-- Curtis Maloney
On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:06:50 +1100 Curtis Maloney cmaloney@umd.com.au articulated:
I'm happy to proof read :)
Personally, I would rather be drinking 100 proof. :)
On a serious note, I am considering undertaking the writing of a comprehensive Dovecot tutorial aimed at the new "user". Those (like me) have the most trouble understanding the Dovecot nomenclature and syntax. I was thinking of something along the lines of the vastly popular "Complete Book of Postfix", which is currently being updated, as a general outline for the project.
-- Jerry gesbbb@yahoo.com
|::::======= |::::======= |=========== |=========== |
There is no royal road to geometry.
EuclidI would be happy to involved in this as someone to read drafts for comprehension by an idiot (me). It's (somewhat) clear to me what the namespace concept could cover, as is the syntax, but just what they do and how they are used is utterly ambiguous. For instance: I think DC uses them to "publish" what mail folders are available, and I can see how ACLs could be used to limit access, but how does a user on a client (much less on webmail) find them, know which is which, use them, make them available in the IMAP client. It's like having a telephone without instructions or a phonebook...and never having used it before, knowing only that it can be used for communication. Well...maybe not *that* bad. And then there's the ambiguity/confusion of different usages of the word namespace used here and in Thunderbird...much less in C++ or XML! Try Goggling namespace! It's as bad as the words domain and alias Timo Sirainen wrote:
On Sat, 2010-01-30 at 08:10 -0500, Jerry wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:26:40 +0200 Timo Sirainen tss@iki.fi articulated:
Maybe we need a: "Namespaces for Dummies" books.
I didn't realize namespaces were so difficult to understand for many people. I'll see if I can get the wiki page updated to describe them better.
Seriously, I am surprised that someone has not written one all ready. There is a "Getting Your Book Published for Dummies (Paperback)" available. Perhaps I will purchase it and then (hopefully with Timo's help) publish a complete "Dovecot for Dummies" paperback. It might even help fund the Dovecot project.
Dovecot book(s) would be nice too.
-- ==== Once upon a time, the Internet was a friendly, neighbors-helping-neighbors small town, and no one locked their doors. Now it's like an apartment in Bed-Stuy: you need three heavy duty pick-proof locks, one of those braces that goes from the lock to the floor, and bars on the windows.... ==== Stewart Dean, Unix System Admin, Bard College, New York 12504 sdean@bard.edu voice: 845-758-7475, fax: 845-758-7035
participants (4)
-
Curtis Maloney
-
Jerry
-
Stewart Dean
-
Timo Sirainen