Saving Direct to Shared Mailbox (Was: Re: [Dovecot] Sending email over IMAP?)
Thinking along similar lines to this sending email via IMAP... What I am thinking, is using Shared Folders/Mailbox's, like mailing lists. We have the power of ACL's, and if you have the appropriate permissions, you can 'append' emails to the folder. Except, when you think of a mailing list, you usually just hit reply.
One of the projects I am working on, will be setup with a number of shared folders, an 'official' folder that everyone has read access to, (probably thier own index files as well, so the Seen flag isn't global), and a few admins have write access to. The problem still comes, as to the easiest way to 'send emails' to the folder. I could set up a virtual user, that delivers to that folder, but then you need a second system of ACL's that determine who can send emails to the folder.... Unless, Dovecot LDA handles that....
So, other than lack of client support for saving directly to a folder, instead of sending to a folder... Can Dovecot LDA do what I want, or be made to do what I want?
I have no problems having a 'virtual' user that people send the emails to, as long as Dovecot LDA will handle the ACL's for it as well.
Any ideas of how to solve this problem, or if Dovecot LDA can/will do it?
Tim
Linux Counter user #273956
On Fri, May 05, 2006 at 08:38:22AM +0800, Timothy White wrote:
Thinking along similar lines to this sending email via IMAP... What I am thinking, is using Shared Folders/Mailbox's, like mailing lists. We have the power of ACL's, and if you have the appropriate permissions, you can 'append' emails to the folder. Except, when you think of a mailing list, you usually just hit reply.
One of the projects I am working on, will be setup with a number of shared folders, an 'official' folder that everyone has read access to, (probably thier own index files as well, so the Seen flag isn't global), and a few admins have write access to. The problem still comes, as to the easiest way to 'send emails' to the folder. I could set up a virtual user, that delivers to that folder, but then you need a second system of ACL's that determine who can send emails to the folder.... Unless, Dovecot LDA handles that....
So, other than lack of client support for saving directly to a folder, instead of sending to a folder... Can Dovecot LDA do what I want, or be made to do what I want?
I have no problems having a 'virtual' user that people send the emails to, as long as Dovecot LDA will handle the ACL's for it as well.
Any ideas of how to solve this problem, or if Dovecot LDA can/will do it?
one approach might be to create an alias of the form:
mailinglist: "|maildir-deliver lists.mailinglist"as long as your MTA runs the piped command as the correct user, and the ficticious maildir-deliver knows how to write to maildir, this should accomplish what you want (although it does not update the dovecot indexes, obviously).
I'm not sure whether dovecot LDA would be capable of the same thing, but it sounds like a useful thing to be able to do (and I'd like to be able to do this in the not-too-distant future, also).
grant.
one approach might be to create an alias of the form:
mailinglist: "|maildir-deliver lists.mailinglist"as long as your MTA runs the piped command as the correct user, and the ficticious maildir-deliver knows how to write to maildir, this should accomplish what you want (although it does not update the dovecot indexes, obviously).
I'm not sure whether dovecot LDA would be capable of the same thing, but it sounds like a useful thing to be able to do (and I'd like to be able to do this in the not-too-distant future, also).
I assume maildir-deliver would have to handle the ACL's then? Otherwise, I could do it all through dovecot-lda. IIRC, it gets it's users from the same place as dovecot. I'm sure I could set it up so that each mailing list had a user, with the maildir set to one of the shared maildir's. It's just the ACL's that cause issues. (Of course, this simple style of mailing list, would require us to teach our users that reply-to-all is needed when you want to reply to the mailing list ;-)
I'm starting to think, that maybe I need to write some specialised 'mailing list' software, that will cater for what I want.
Tim
Linux Counter user #273956
Quoting Timothy White <dovecot.user@weirdo.bur.st>:
this simple style of mailing list, would require us to teach our users that reply-to-all is needed when you want to reply to the mailing list ;-)
Think of it as best purposed as a "distribution list" rather than a mailing list. A distribution list is one to push information out to people, in one direction only. Useful for things like school announcements (school closing, parking disruptions, crime alerts, reminders about upcoming deadlines, etc). It isn't intended for two-way discussions like a mailing list is.
This then becomes a simple, efficient way to mass-mail people with notices.
I'm starting to think, that maybe I need to write some specialised 'mailing list' software, that will cater for what I want.
If you want a distribution list, I'd say it sounds like a worthy project. If you want a (bi-directional) mailing list, then why re-invent the wheel, adding confusion to the end-user?
What you've described is only a delivery mechanism, which is all that people typically want for a distribution list. A mailing list on the other hand usually involves much more (commands to subscribe/remove, moderation, ability to reply, archives, etc) and is far beyond the scope you are talking about.
You could try to create such software as a delivery mechanism to be used with some other existing mailing list software though. That would split the work up, and leverage existing work.
Tim
Linux Counter user #273956
-- Eric Rostetter The Department of Physics The University of Texas at Austin
Go Longhorns!
What you've described is only a delivery mechanism, which is all that people typically want for a distribution list. A mailing list on the other hand usually involves much more (commands to subscribe/remove, moderation, ability to reply, archives, etc) and is far beyond the scope you are talking about.
The situation I want it in, is basically lots of distribution lists, but I need to be able to control who has access to 'post' to it... And I need to simplify the posting to the list. Some of the lists would be very much mailing list style, with all users being able to 'post'. Others, would be a select group who can post.
As for the (un)subscribe, seeing as it's to shared folders, they can subscribe to the shared folder. Although, some lists are compulsory to be subscribed to (still haven't worked out the best way to do that). Moderation isn't need, ether you can post, or you can't. Ability to reply. If you can 'post' to the list, then you can reply to the list, otherwise, you have to reply to the individual involved. Archives, well the maildir becomes archives in it's self.
So while it is kinda out of scope, I really want to be able to set this up, it simplifies a lot for the user, and all the admin would hopefully be done through the ACL's. The other reason, is for uniformity. I Will be using the Shared Folder, as an "Official Messages" style distribution list. It makes sense then, that if I do that through shared folders, that I keep things uniform, and do all the internal communications of that style, via the same methods. Simplifies user education, and administration.
I'm thinking that I will probably have to extend Dovecot LDA a lot, or write my own delivery system...
Tim p.s. Quick question, is there a method in Shared Folders, that allows a user to "Delete" the message only from his 'view'? I know you can have separate index's and stuff for each user, but will this allow them to set the 'deleted' flag?
Linux Counter user #273956
Timothy White wrote:
The situation I want it in, is basically lots of distribution lists, but I need to be able to control who has access to 'post' to it... And I need to simplify the posting to the list. Some of the lists would be very much mailing list style, with all users being able to 'post'. Others, would be a select group who can post.
This is wildly off topic for this list, IMNSHO. You need to investigate either your MTA's capabilities (Postfix can do distribution lists, for example) or get a real list management package (ezmlm works great if you are in the Qmail world). For that matter, you can use almost any of the existing LDA's out there (maildrop, etc) to create simple distribution lists; you could even use Dovecot's LDA with SIEVE rules, but that still doesn't make it on topic here.
There is absolutely no reason to try and bolt this functionality onto an IMAP/POP3 server.
John
-- John Peacock Director of Information Research and Technology Rowman & Littlefield Publishing Group 4501 Forbes Boulevard Suite H Lanham, MD 20706 301-459-3366 x.5010 fax 301-429-5748
On Fri, 2006-05-05 at 09:46, Timothy White wrote:
The situation I want it in, is basically lots of distribution lists, but I need to be able to control who has access to 'post' to it... And I need to simplify the posting to the list. Some of the lists would be very much mailing list style, with all users being able to 'post'. Others, would be a select group who can post.
Why not run them through mailman as a list manager? Then if you want to deliver to a shared folder you can subscribe it's address but you won't be limited to only people on the same server.
As for the (un)subscribe, seeing as it's to shared folders, they can subscribe to the shared folder. Although, some lists are compulsory to be subscribed to (still haven't worked out the best way to do that). Moderation isn't need, ether you can post, or you can't. Ability to reply. If you can 'post' to the list, then you can reply to the list, otherwise, you have to reply to the individual involved. Archives, well the maildir becomes archives in it's self.
People aren't used to 'replying' by moving a message into an imap folder. I think you'd have a big problem with training.
-- Les Mikesell lesmikesell@gmail.com
Quoting Timothy White <weirdit@gmail.com>:
The situation I want it in, is basically lots of distribution lists, but I need to be able to control who has access to 'post' to it... And I need to simplify the posting to the list. Some of the lists would be very much mailing list style, with all users being able to 'post'. Others, would be a select group who can post.
I'd presonally create something like you want for the pure distribution lists you mention, and stick with regular mailing lists or some other technology (rss, bss, etc) for the others. But that's just me.
So while it is kinda out of scope, I really want to be able to set this up, it simplifies a lot for the user, and all the admin would hopefully be done through the ACL's.
I can see it being a valid project for at least some of your needs...
The other reason, is for uniformity. I Will be using the Shared Folder, as an "Official Messages" style distribution list. It makes sense then, that if I do that through shared folders, that I keep things uniform, and do all the internal communications of that style, via the same methods. Simplifies user education, and administration.
I agree, if doing this via the distribution list method. Once you allow "replying" I don't think it is "Official" notifications any more, in general...
Good luck on the project!
-- Eric Rostetter The Department of Physics The University of Texas at Austin
Go Longhorns!
participants (6)
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Eric Rostetter
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grant beattie
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John Peacock
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Les Mikesell
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Timothy White
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Timothy White