Re: [Dovecot] Android ICS stock client and IMAP Capability issue.
Hi,
Yes w/o prefix work as expected, try to add a prefix like courier does (eg. Inbox.) It will not work as expected.
Due I'm upgrading an old installed server, I've to keep everything as much transparent I can... it includes IMAP folder and subscription.
Looking at that I've encountered that issue, and analyzed for fix it (thank you open source), not everyone will want to use/use k9.. but you can be 100% sure the stock client is there.
Due that Google act like BlackBerry, Microsoft,etc.. (hovewer they will not fix it soon, or really respect the rfc), it's much simple add Namespace on prelogin banner then wait or have to tell someone to install another client for that mailbox.
I didn't know the history, but looking at change log seems that idle as been put back to prelogin client for some kind of compatibility with their service.
Anyway, the most important reason that got me to subscribe the mailing list for write those emails, is share with the community that problem and provide a solution.. for someone in the future that have the same problem and will search on internet for a solution (like I've does.. before analyze it on my own).
If the workaround will be added to the wiki or will be put in the source.. the important thing is that there is a solution simple and fast (two.. the source modify, and the configuration file) and someone can find it..
(Sarcastic) And if the mayans were right we can't wait for google to fix it :p
Best Regards Sent from Galaxy Nexus
Robert Schetterer <rs@sys4.de> ha scritto:
Am 07.11.2012 08:13, schrieb Massimiliano Cianelli:
Hello,
My phone: Android ics 4.1.2 on galaxy nexus. And yes, stock mean the default client that come with the os in IMAP mode.
I already know about that configuration parameter, but it will display two time namespace in postlogin capabilities, and so I like much more to adjust the source code to fix the issue.
Yes there is k9 but I didn't like it too much, I prefer the stock client and is much important to keep compatibility with stock client then user-installed client.
About the issue on Google code, there is thr issue on google code... but Google is a lot slow in fixing those things. http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1811
In a few hour I'll update the issue noticing where is hidden the problem.
Regards Sent from Galaxy Nexus
Hi , i shortly tested this with android sdk jelly bean 4.1.1 and "my setup" dovecot 2.1.10 with included orginal android mail app in imap mode, ,leaving IMAP prefix blank, everything works as expected, no double shown inbox, namespace problems etc so you might have to fit your namespace setup. Also you might follow allready given advice from here.
Anyway , i understand you using "stock client" but you have to understand that the producers of mail clients optimize their stuff fitting best in their own server structure making money with it, therefor their motivation coding better imap code is not very high, same case is for outlook and microsoft however, i would say, fixing bugs is on the google site here, looks like there is patch at http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1811 and the issue seems long known
i dont see any hard relation to dovecot in this case meanwhile using k9mail seems the best way to workaround there are lots of other bugs around android versions over the years i dont expect google to fix them
Robert Schetterer <rs@sys4.de> ha scritto:
Am 06.11.2012 07:08, schrieb Ben Morrow:
At 6AM +0100 on 6/11/12 you (Massimiliano Cianelli) wrote:
Hi,
My setup: Dovecot 2 latest, installed to replace courrier IMAP, and off course configured with the dot separator and all folder under INBOX.*.
The problem: My phone was driving me mad during the test, due that it will only recognize Inbox.
How found the solution: I've started sniffing IMAP traffic on my server and ended up with one difference: On courier it ask for namespace, on dovecot it won't.
I gives a better look, and noticed that courier show namespace capability on prelogin banner, adding it too solved the problem.
Reason: Android ICS stock client seems do not honor the capability gived after the login.
See http://wiki2.dovecot.org/Upgrading/2.0?highlight=%28capability%29 ; you need to set imap_capability and/or get your client fixed.
Ben
Hi, first ,what is the exact meaning of
"Android ICS stock client"
do you mean default included email client in standard android in imap mode, when yes, which version of Android , i like to test my own however is there changelog/code etc at google for this behave?
conf example
# Override the IMAP CAPABILITY response. If the value begins with '+', # add the given capabilities on top of the defaults (e.g. +XFOO XBAR). #imap_capability =
setting stuff here might be complex , or lead to trouble with other clients, if setting this might fix problems ,with clients it should be advised in the wiki/example-conf and/or Timo
or the other way ,for massive used clients there should be a seperate workaround section in the conf
But fixing behave clients should be prime option anyway
Meanwhile use K9mail in Android as best free option in imap mode servers
Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Axel von der Ohe, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Joerg Heidrich
Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Axel von der Ohe, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Joerg Heidrich
On 8.11.2012, at 1.24, Massimiliano Cianelli wrote:
Due that Google act like BlackBerry, Microsoft,etc.. (hovewer they will not fix it soon, or really respect the rfc), it's much simple add Namespace on prelogin banner then wait or have to tell someone to install another client for that mailbox.
I didn't know the history, but looking at change log seems that idle as been put back to prelogin client for some kind of compatibility with their service.
Luckily the big ones only needed IDLE to work. I'm hoping to avoid adding anything else.
And Dovecot is currently the most widely used IMAP server, so I think there's a good chance of client developers actually fixing their clients.
I've noticed an error in my sentence about the change log, it was referred to blackberry.. not to Google
Google need only 'namespace', I will try to update the issue (due that every IMAP server that will respect the rfc will not work as expected in that condition).. pointing the problem on post login capability... and we will see when Google will want to fix it.
Regards
Timo Sirainen <tss@iki.fi> ha scritto:
On 8.11.2012, at 1.24, Massimiliano Cianelli wrote:
Due that Google act like BlackBerry, Microsoft,etc.. (hovewer they will not fix it soon, or really respect the rfc), it's much simple add Namespace on prelogin banner then wait or have to tell someone to install another client for that mailbox.
I didn't know the history, but looking at change log seems that idle as been put back to prelogin client for some kind of compatibility with their service.
Luckily the big ones only needed IDLE to work. I'm hoping to avoid adding anything else.
And Dovecot is currently the most widely used IMAP server, so I think there's a good chance of client developers actually fixing their clients.
-- testing k9
Even gmail itself isn't advertising all capabilities before login:
- CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UNSELECT IDLE NAMESPACE QUOTA ID XLIST CHILDREN X-GM-EXT-1 XYZZY SASL-IR AUTH=XOAUTH AUTH=XOAUTH2
vs.
- CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UNSELECT IDLE NAMESPACE QUOTA ID XLIST CHILDREN X-GM-EXT-1 UIDPLUS COMPRESS=DEFLATE
UIDPLUS especially has been very widely used long before gmail. I guess they also don't want to advertise unnecessary capabilities before login and have determined that all the important clients supporting UIDPLUS support receiving after it post-login.
On 8.11.2012, at 1.48, Massimiliano Cianelli wrote:
I've noticed an error in my sentence about the change log, it was referred to blackberry.. not to Google
Google need only 'namespace', I will try to update the issue (due that every IMAP server that will respect the rfc will not work as expected in that condition).. pointing the problem on post login capability... and we will see when Google will want to fix it.
Regards
Timo Sirainen <tss@iki.fi> ha scritto:
On 8.11.2012, at 1.24, Massimiliano Cianelli wrote:
Due that Google act like BlackBerry, Microsoft,etc.. (hovewer they will not fix it soon, or really respect the rfc), it's much simple add Namespace on prelogin banner then wait or have to tell someone to install another client for that mailbox.
I didn't know the history, but looking at change log seems that idle as been put back to prelogin client for some kind of compatibility with their service.
Luckily the big ones only needed IDLE to work. I'm hoping to avoid adding anything else.
And Dovecot is currently the most widely used IMAP server, so I think there's a good chance of client developers actually fixing their clients.
-- testing k9
Yes, but namespace is in prelogin... and anyway they will say that the team which will make the gmail app is different then the email app.
IMHO there is only a commercial reason.. keep people use gmail and force company and private to use Google apps... in that way they will not have issue and have push delivery (also called IMAP idle that is not supported).
Timo Sirainen <tss@iki.fi> ha scritto:
Even gmail itself isn't advertising all capabilities before login:
- CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UNSELECT IDLE NAMESPACE QUOTA ID XLIST CHILDREN X-GM-EXT-1 XYZZY SASL-IR AUTH=XOAUTH AUTH=XOAUTH2
vs.
- CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UNSELECT IDLE NAMESPACE QUOTA ID XLIST CHILDREN X-GM-EXT-1 UIDPLUS COMPRESS=DEFLATE
UIDPLUS especially has been very widely used long before gmail. I guess they also don't want to advertise unnecessary capabilities before login and have determined that all the important clients supporting UIDPLUS support receiving after it post-login.
On 8.11.2012, at 1.48, Massimiliano Cianelli wrote:
I've noticed an error in my sentence about the change log, it was referred to blackberry.. not to Google
Google need only 'namespace', I will try to update the issue (due that every IMAP server that will respect the rfc will not work as expected in that condition).. pointing the problem on post login capability... and we will see when Google will want to fix it.
Regards
Timo Sirainen <tss@iki.fi> ha scritto:
On 8.11.2012, at 1.24, Massimiliano Cianelli wrote:
Due that Google act like BlackBerry, Microsoft,etc.. (hovewer they will not fix it soon, or really respect the rfc), it's much simple add Namespace on prelogin banner then wait or have to tell someone to install another client for that mailbox.
I didn't know the history, but looking at change log seems that idle as been put back to prelogin client for some kind of compatibility with their service.
Luckily the big ones only needed IDLE to work. I'm hoping to avoid adding anything else.
And Dovecot is currently the most widely used IMAP server, so I think there's a good chance of client developers actually fixing their clients.
-- testing k9
-- Inviato dal mio cellulare Android con K-9 Mail.
Yes, different teams, but I think Google is still a lot more reasonable company to deal with things like this than Microsoft. Although surprisingly even Microsoft appears to support SPECIAL-USE in the next Outlook(?) client.
On 8.11.2012, at 2.01, Massimiliano Cianelli wrote:
Yes, but namespace is in prelogin... and anyway they will say that the team which will make the gmail app is different then the email app.
IMHO there is only a commercial reason.. keep people use gmail and force company and private to use Google apps... in that way they will not have issue and have push delivery (also called IMAP idle that is not supported).
Timo Sirainen <tss@iki.fi> ha scritto:
Even gmail itself isn't advertising all capabilities before login:
- CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UNSELECT IDLE NAMESPACE QUOTA ID XLIST CHILDREN X-GM-EXT-1 XYZZY SASL-IR AUTH=XOAUTH AUTH=XOAUTH2
vs.
- CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UNSELECT IDLE NAMESPACE QUOTA ID XLIST CHILDREN X-GM-EXT-1 UIDPLUS COMPRESS=DEFLATE
UIDPLUS especially has been very widely used long before gmail. I guess they also don't want to advertise unnecessary capabilities before login and have determined that all the important clients supporting UIDPLUS support receiving after it post-login.
On 8.11.2012, at 1.48, Massimiliano Cianelli wrote:
I've noticed an error in my sentence about the change log, it was referred to blackberry.. not to Google
Google need only 'namespace', I will try to update the issue (due that every IMAP server that will respect the rfc will not work as expected in that condition).. pointing the problem on post login capability... and we will see when Google will want to fix it.
Regards
Timo Sirainen <tss@iki.fi> ha scritto:
On 8.11.2012, at 1.24, Massimiliano Cianelli wrote:
Due that Google act like BlackBerry, Microsoft,etc.. (hovewer they will not fix it soon, or really respect the rfc), it's much simple add Namespace on prelogin banner then wait or have to tell someone to install another client for that mailbox.
I didn't know the history, but looking at change log seems that idle as been put back to prelogin client for some kind of compatibility with their service.
Luckily the big ones only needed IDLE to work. I'm hoping to avoid adding anything else.
And Dovecot is currently the most widely used IMAP server, so I think there's a good chance of client developers actually fixing their clients.
-- testing k9
-- Inviato dal mio cellulare Android con K-9 Mail.
If you give a look to Google code there are a lot of important bugs keep open from years.
I like a lot android... but they have to spent a little more on it. Only in that way it will be the best mobile os around. Now it have some goods and some bads things.. like every os around us.. the only big good thing... it is open.
Timo Sirainen <tss@iki.fi> ha scritto:
Yes, different teams, but I think Google is still a lot more reasonable company to deal with things like this than Microsoft. Although surprisingly even Microsoft appears to support SPECIAL-USE in the next Outlook(?) client.
On 8.11.2012, at 2.01, Massimiliano Cianelli wrote:
Yes, but namespace is in prelogin... and anyway they will say that the team which will make the gmail app is different then the email app.
IMHO there is only a commercial reason.. keep people use gmail and force company and private to use Google apps... in that way they will not have issue and have push delivery (also called IMAP idle that is not supported).
Timo Sirainen <tss@iki.fi> ha scritto:
Even gmail itself isn't advertising all capabilities before login:
- CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UNSELECT IDLE NAMESPACE QUOTA ID XLIST CHILDREN X-GM-EXT-1 XYZZY SASL-IR AUTH=XOAUTH AUTH=XOAUTH2
vs.
- CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UNSELECT IDLE NAMESPACE QUOTA ID XLIST CHILDREN X-GM-EXT-1 UIDPLUS COMPRESS=DEFLATE
UIDPLUS especially has been very widely used long before gmail. I guess they also don't want to advertise unnecessary capabilities before login and have determined that all the important clients supporting UIDPLUS support receiving after it post-login.
On 8.11.2012, at 1.48, Massimiliano Cianelli wrote:
I've noticed an error in my sentence about the change log, it was referred to blackberry.. not to Google
Google need only 'namespace', I will try to update the issue (due that every IMAP server that will respect the rfc will not work as expected in that condition).. pointing the problem on post login capability... and we will see when Google will want to fix it.
Regards
Timo Sirainen <tss@iki.fi> ha scritto:
On 8.11.2012, at 1.24, Massimiliano Cianelli wrote:
Due that Google act like BlackBerry, Microsoft,etc.. (hovewer they will not fix it soon, or really respect the rfc), it's much simple add Namespace on prelogin banner then wait or have to tell someone to install another client for that mailbox.
I didn't know the history, but looking at change log seems that idle as been put back to prelogin client for some kind of compatibility with their service.
Luckily the big ones only needed IDLE to work. I'm hoping to avoid adding anything else.
And Dovecot is currently the most widely used IMAP server, so I think there's a good chance of client developers actually fixing their clients.
-- testing k9
-- Inviato dal mio cellulare Android con K-9 Mail.
Sent from Galaxy Nexus
Am 08.11.2012 01:18, schrieb Massimiliano Cianelli:
Yes, different teams, but I think Google is still a lot more reasonable
company to deal with things like this than Microsoft. Although surprisingly even Microsoft appears to support SPECIAL-USE in the next Outlook(?) client.
yeah it works, but they had bugged it for my last tests, mail in sent folder ( which is corect in use by SPECIAL-USE ) always stay unread, seems they have had design problems using now a standard outgoing folder, however there is a bug report about that and they anounced to fix it, but it isnt in my last tests after the last upgrade, if they dont fix it you cant use the sent folder via imap in a handy way , and you have to disable the feature in total ( this point was changed also ), and need to set this function via filter wizard like long time ago outlook versions needed it
Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Axel von der Ohe, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Joerg Heidrich
- Robert Schetterer <rs@sys4.de>:
Am 08.11.2012 01:18, schrieb Massimiliano Cianelli:
Yes, different teams, but I think Google is still a lot more reasonable
company to deal with things like this than Microsoft. Although surprisingly even Microsoft appears to support SPECIAL-USE in the next Outlook(?) client.
yeah it works, but they had bugged it for my last tests, mail in sent folder ( which is corect in use by SPECIAL-USE ) always stay unread, seems they have had design problems using now a standard outgoing folder, however there is a bug report about that and they anounced to fix it, but it isnt in my last tests after the last upgrade, if they dont fix it you cant use the sent folder via imap in a handy way , and you have to disable the feature in total ( this point was changed also ), and need to set this function via filter wizard like long time ago outlook versions needed it
We could work around this with a SIEVE rule that marks the message 'read' when it is put into the Sent folder, couldn't we?
p@rick
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Axel von der Ohe, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Joerg Heidrich
Am 08.11.2012 09:34, schrieb Patrick Ben Koetter:
- Robert Schetterer <rs@sys4.de>:
Am 08.11.2012 01:18, schrieb Massimiliano Cianelli:
Yes, different teams, but I think Google is still a lot more reasonable
company to deal with things like this than Microsoft. Although surprisingly even Microsoft appears to support SPECIAL-USE in the next Outlook(?) client.
yeah it works, but they had bugged it for my last tests, mail in sent folder ( which is corect in use by SPECIAL-USE ) always stay unread, seems they have had design problems using now a standard outgoing folder, however there is a bug report about that and they anounced to fix it, but it isnt in my last tests after the last upgrade, if they dont fix it you cant use the sent folder via imap in a handy way , and you have to disable the feature in total ( this point was changed also ), and need to set this function via filter wizard like long time ago outlook versions needed it
We could work around this with a SIEVE rule that marks the message 'read' when it is put into the Sent folder, couldn't we?
p@rick
its a copy/move imap to sent folder act, cant see how we could get sieve involved in that "for now" , cause sieve only act when lda or lmtp is used ,in my understandig but lets hope microsoft has/will fix it, i will test the stable new outlook, until i get more powerfull hardware to install it, i am also looking forward whats happening with imap special use on different language versions
Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Axel von der Ohe, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Joerg Heidrich
- Timo Sirainen <dovecot@dovecot.org>:
Yes, different teams, but I think Google is still a lot more reasonable company to deal with things like this than Microsoft. Although surprisingly even Microsoft appears to support SPECIAL-USE in the next Outlook(?) client.
confirmed.
p@rick
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Axel von der Ohe, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Joerg Heidrich
Am 08.11.2012 00:24, schrieb Massimiliano Cianelli:
Hi,
Yes w/o prefix work as expected, try to add a prefix like courier does (eg. Inbox.) It will not work as expected.
I see you point, but as i have seen other mail clients have problems with prefix namespace in the past, i am using the most unproblematic setup, there will never be an universal best config for all imap software existing, dont try to find it
Due I'm upgrading an old installed server, I've to keep everything as much transparent I can... it includes IMAP folder and subscription.
look at dovecot migration sites for examples, but it may stay a problem ever ,that some imap clients with broken stuff do not behave proper after migration again this should be fixed on the client side
Looking at that I've encountered that issue, and analyzed for fix it (thank you open source), not everyone will want to use/use k9.. but you can be 100% sure the stock client is there.
thats right, but if its failing with some servers, it has to be fixed at the "source of evil" first *g, anyway i dont see the point dovecot related, but your info is usefull anyway
Due that Google act like BlackBerry, Microsoft,etc.. (hovewer they will not fix it soon, or really respect the rfc), it's much simple add Namespace on prelogin banner then wait or have to tell someone to install another client for that mailbox.
I didn't know the history, but looking at change log seems that idle as been put back to prelogin client for some kind of compatibility with their service.
Anyway, the most important reason that got me to subscribe the mailing list for write those emails, is share with the community that problem and provide a solution.. for someone in the future that have the same problem and will search on internet for a solution (like I've does.. before analyze it on my own).
If the workaround will be added to the wiki or will be put in the source.. the important thing is that there is a solution simple and fast (two.. the source modify, and the configuration file) and someone can find it..
(Sarcastic) And if the mayans were right we can't wait for google to fix it :p
Dovecot has mass of config parameter, try find out what set best to workaround your problem, then post it to the wiki, it will be welcomed
Best Regards Sent from Galaxy Nexus
Robert Schetterer <rs@sys4.de> ha scritto:
Am 07.11.2012 08:13, schrieb Massimiliano Cianelli:
Hello,
My phone: Android ics 4.1.2 on galaxy nexus. And yes, stock mean the default client that come with the os in IMAP mode.
I already know about that configuration parameter, but it will display two time namespace in postlogin capabilities, and so I like much more to adjust the source code to fix the issue.
Yes there is k9 but I didn't like it too much, I prefer the stock client and is much important to keep compatibility with stock client then user-installed client.
About the issue on Google code, there is thr issue on google code... but Google is a lot slow in fixing those things. http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1811
In a few hour I'll update the issue noticing where is hidden the problem.
Regards Sent from Galaxy Nexus
Hi , i shortly tested this with android sdk jelly bean 4.1.1 and "my setup" dovecot 2.1.10 with included orginal android mail app in imap mode, ,leaving IMAP prefix blank, everything works as expected, no double shown inbox, namespace problems etc so you might have to fit your namespace setup. Also you might follow allready given advice from here.
Anyway , i understand you using "stock client" but you have to understand that the producers of mail clients optimize their stuff fitting best in their own server structure making money with it, therefor their motivation coding better imap code is not very high, same case is for outlook and microsoft however, i would say, fixing bugs is on the google site here, looks like there is patch at http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1811 and the issue seems long known
i dont see any hard relation to dovecot in this case meanwhile using k9mail seems the best way to workaround there are lots of other bugs around android versions over the years i dont expect google to fix them
Robert Schetterer <rs@sys4.de> ha scritto:
Am 06.11.2012 07:08, schrieb Ben Morrow:
At 6AM +0100 on 6/11/12 you (Massimiliano Cianelli) wrote:
Hi,
My setup: Dovecot 2 latest, installed to replace courrier IMAP, and off course configured with the dot separator and all folder under INBOX.*.
The problem: My phone was driving me mad during the test, due that it will only recognize Inbox.
How found the solution: I've started sniffing IMAP traffic on my server and ended up with one difference: On courier it ask for namespace, on dovecot it won't.
I gives a better look, and noticed that courier show namespace capability on prelogin banner, adding it too solved the problem.
Reason: Android ICS stock client seems do not honor the capability gived after the login.
See http://wiki2.dovecot.org/Upgrading/2.0?highlight=%28capability%29 ; you need to set imap_capability and/or get your client fixed.
Ben
Hi, first ,what is the exact meaning of
"Android ICS stock client"
do you mean default included email client in standard android in imap mode, when yes, which version of Android , i like to test my own however is there changelog/code etc at google for this behave?
conf example
# Override the IMAP CAPABILITY response. If the value begins with '+', # add the given capabilities on top of the defaults (e.g. +XFOO XBAR). #imap_capability =
setting stuff here might be complex , or lead to trouble with other clients, if setting this might fix problems ,with clients it should be advised in the wiki/example-conf and/or Timo
or the other way ,for massive used clients there should be a seperate workaround section in the conf
But fixing behave clients should be prime option anyway
Meanwhile use K9mail in Android as best free option in imap mode servers
Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Axel von der Ohe, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Joerg Heidrich
Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Axel von der Ohe, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Joerg Heidrich
Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Axel von der Ohe, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Joerg Heidrich
participants (4)
-
Massimiliano Cianelli
-
Patrick Ben Koetter
-
Robert Schetterer
-
Timo Sirainen