[Dovecot] Outlook 2007 & 2010 hangs in v2.2?
Has anybody noticed Outlook 2007 & 2010 (but apparently not 2013) hanging IMAP connections with Dovecot v2.2 (but not v2.1) when they're FETCHing large mails? I can't think of any reasonable explanation for this.
Am 05.06.2014 16:38, schrieb Timo Sirainen:
Has anybody noticed Outlook 2007 & 2010 (but apparently not 2013) hanging IMAP connections with Dovecot v2.2 (but not v2.1) when they're FETCHing large mails? I can't think of any reasonable explanation for this.
how large?
-- Viele Grüße,
Martin Rabl
On 5.6.2014, at 17.41, Martin Rabl martin.rabl@rablnet.de wrote:
Am 05.06.2014 16:38, schrieb Timo Sirainen:
Has anybody noticed Outlook 2007 & 2010 (but apparently not 2013) hanging IMAP connections with Dovecot v2.2 (but not v2.1) when they're FETCHing large mails? I can't think of any reasonable explanation for this.
how large?
I don't know yet if the mail size is even relevant. At least one hang was caused by downloading ~55 MB mail where it stopped just before the last 400 kB.
I find it strange that v2.2 has been out for a long time and nobody before this complained about any hangs.
Am 05.06.2014 17:02, schrieb Timo Sirainen:
On 5.6.2014, at 17.41, Martin Rabl martin.rabl@rablnet.de wrote:
Am 05.06.2014 16:38, schrieb Timo Sirainen:
Has anybody noticed Outlook 2007 & 2010 (but apparently not 2013) hanging IMAP connections with Dovecot v2.2 (but not v2.1) when they're FETCHing large mails? I can't think of any reasonable explanation for this.
how large?
I don't know yet if the mail size is even relevant. At least one hang was caused by downloading ~55 MB mail where it stopped just before the last 400 kB.
I find it strange that v2.2 has been out for a long time and nobody before this complained about any hangs.
55 MB mail may are rare ,i can test it ,but it will need some time ( old outlook install on clean new windows system....) perhaps anyone has an existing setup which could do it faster
Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein
On 5.6.2014, at 20.23, Robert Schetterer rs@sys4.de wrote:
Am 05.06.2014 17:02, schrieb Timo Sirainen:
On 5.6.2014, at 17.41, Martin Rabl martin.rabl@rablnet.de wrote:
Am 05.06.2014 16:38, schrieb Timo Sirainen:
Has anybody noticed Outlook 2007 & 2010 (but apparently not 2013) hanging IMAP connections with Dovecot v2.2 (but not v2.1) when they're FETCHing large mails? I can't think of any reasonable explanation for this.
how large?
I don't know yet if the mail size is even relevant. At least one hang was caused by downloading ~55 MB mail where it stopped just before the last 400 kB.
I find it strange that v2.2 has been out for a long time and nobody before this complained about any hangs.
55 MB mail may are rare ,i can test it ,but it will need some time ( old outlook install on clean new windows system....) perhaps anyone has an existing setup which could do it faster
Happens also with smaller mails, for example 3 MB and I think there were also even smaller ones like 1 MB. I see that once Outlook tried to download the same 3 MB mail 3 times and it stopped reading it when it had 400 kB left, but the 4th time succeeded. Dovecot sent exactly the same data with the same TCP packet boundaries all times (at least to Dovecot proxy - would have to look with tcpdump further to see if proxy does something differently..)
Anyway, nobody in general has had trouble with Dovecot v2.2 and Outlook 2007/2010? Maybe the problem is something else, although strange if it started happening only immediately after Dovecot upgrade.
We just upgraded from 2.1.16 to 2.2.13, and we have been have horrendous troubles with outlook since the upgrade.
For users with large mailboxes, they are unable to sync their folders. Perhaps this is specifically because of the problem you are mentioning Timo.
The only solution we could come up with for now was to configure outlook to only fetch headers and not bodies, when syncing. For the most part, bringing up individual messages is fine, haven't seen that fail. So, with that tweak to the outlook config, things are working error-free again for our users...but it was certainly an unexpected situation to tackle.
Also, we found a marked improvement connecting via SSL on 993 than we do unencrypted on 143.
I can definitely confirm 100% there is a regression in dovecot 2.2 that severely impacts the performance of outlook (but works great with everything else).
Let me know if I can help you track this down Timo.
Andy
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:40 PM, Timo Sirainen tss@iki.fi wrote:
On 5.6.2014, at 20.23, Robert Schetterer rs@sys4.de wrote:
Am 05.06.2014 17:02, schrieb Timo Sirainen:
On 5.6.2014, at 17.41, Martin Rabl martin.rabl@rablnet.de wrote:
Am 05.06.2014 16:38, schrieb Timo Sirainen:
Has anybody noticed Outlook 2007 & 2010 (but apparently not 2013) hanging IMAP connections with Dovecot v2.2 (but not v2.1) when they're FETCHing large mails? I can't think of any reasonable explanation for this. how large?
I don't know yet if the mail size is even relevant. At least one hang was caused by downloading ~55 MB mail where it stopped just before the last 400 kB.
I find it strange that v2.2 has been out for a long time and nobody before this complained about any hangs.
55 MB mail may are rare ,i can test it ,but it will need some time ( old outlook install on clean new windows system....) perhaps anyone has an existing setup which could do it faster
Happens also with smaller mails, for example 3 MB and I think there were also even smaller ones like 1 MB. I see that once Outlook tried to download the same 3 MB mail 3 times and it stopped reading it when it had 400 kB left, but the 4th time succeeded. Dovecot sent exactly the same data with the same TCP packet boundaries all times (at least to Dovecot proxy - would have to look with tcpdump further to see if proxy does something differently..)
Anyway, nobody in general has had trouble with Dovecot v2.2 and Outlook 2007/2010? Maybe the problem is something else, although strange if it started happening only immediately after Dovecot upgrade.
Am 06.06.2014 16:25, schrieb Andy Dills:
I can definitely confirm 100% there is a regression in dovecot 2.2 that severely impacts the performance of outlook (but works great with everything else).
please be exact in describing what Outlook version, i did not notice any problem testing Outlook 2013, anyway thx for informing
Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein
I can confirm also that since upgrading from 2.1.16 to 2.2.13 that Outlook 2013 (don't have previous versions to test) is throwing strange errors when users send emails. This predominantly happens when sending but has happened when they compose a long email then send. These users have 50GB+ mailboxes using IMAP.
I will try the fetch headers and report back.
The Outlook errors we are getting is "The operation failed. The messaging interfaces returned an unknown error. Please restart Outlook".
So I can confirm there is problem, as one of the users who use Thunderbird with an equally large mailbox and does not have problems.
Kilburn
On 06/07/2014 12:25 AM, Andy Dills wrote:
We just upgraded from 2.1.16 to 2.2.13, and we have been have horrendous troubles with outlook since the upgrade.
For users with large mailboxes, they are unable to sync their folders. Perhaps this is specifically because of the problem you are mentioning Timo.
The only solution we could come up with for now was to configure outlook to only fetch headers and not bodies, when syncing. For the most part, bringing up individual messages is fine, haven't seen that fail. So, with that tweak to the outlook config, things are working error-free again for our users...but it was certainly an unexpected situation to tackle.
Also, we found a marked improvement connecting via SSL on 993 than we do unencrypted on 143.
I can definitely confirm 100% there is a regression in dovecot 2.2 that severely impacts the performance of outlook (but works great with everything else).
Let me know if I can help you track this down Timo.
Andy
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:40 PM, Timo Sirainen tss@iki.fi wrote:
On 5.6.2014, at 20.23, Robert Schetterer rs@sys4.de wrote:
On 5.6.2014, at 17.41, Martin Rabl martin.rabl@rablnet.de wrote:
Am 05.06.2014 16:38, schrieb Timo Sirainen:
Has anybody noticed Outlook 2007 & 2010 (but apparently not 2013) hanging IMAP connections with Dovecot v2.2 (but not v2.1) when they're FETCHing large mails? I can't think of any reasonable explanation for this. how large? I don't know yet if the mail size is even relevant. At least one hang was caused by downloading ~55 MB mail where it stopped just before the last 400 kB.
I find it strange that v2.2 has been out for a long time and nobody before this complained about any hangs. 55 MB mail may are rare ,i can test it ,but it will need some time ( old outlook install on clean new windows system....)
Am 05.06.2014 17:02, schrieb Timo Sirainen: perhaps anyone has an existing setup which could do it faster Happens also with smaller mails, for example 3 MB and I think there were also even smaller ones like 1 MB. I see that once Outlook tried to download the same 3 MB mail 3 times and it stopped reading it when it had 400 kB left, but the 4th time succeeded. Dovecot sent exactly the same data with the same TCP packet boundaries all times (at least to Dovecot proxy - would have to look with tcpdump further to see if proxy does something differently..)
Anyway, nobody in general has had trouble with Dovecot v2.2 and Outlook 2007/2010? Maybe the problem is something else, although strange if it started happening only immediately after Dovecot upgrade.
Am 07.06.2014 16:46, schrieb Kilburn Abrahams:
I can confirm also that since upgrading from 2.1.16 to 2.2.13 that Outlook 2013 (don't have previous versions to test) is throwing strange errors when users send emails. This predominantly happens when sending but has happened when they compose a long email then send. These users have 50GB+ mailboxes using IMAP.
I will try the fetch headers and report back.
The Outlook errors we are getting is "The operation failed. The messaging interfaces returned an unknown error. Please restart Outlook".
So I can confirm there is problem, as one of the users who use Thunderbird with an equally large mailbox and does not have problems.
Kilburn
you mean copy to "sent" imap sent folder , after sent via smtp perhaps i find time to test this myself too, however 50 GB of Mailbox is "not very wise" to have anyway, what are youre "offline" sync policies at that mailboxes, or better to say ,what are defaults at outlook 2013 with syncing such large mailboxes in imap mode, Thunderbird per default does full sync , and gives the chance to configure by folder. At last, dont expect Outlook as good imap client, in very prime its the client of exchange, other features like imap are "on top".
On 06/07/2014 12:25 AM, Andy Dills wrote:
We just upgraded from 2.1.16 to 2.2.13, and we have been have horrendous troubles with outlook since the upgrade.
For users with large mailboxes, they are unable to sync their folders. Perhaps this is specifically because of the problem you are mentioning Timo.
The only solution we could come up with for now was to configure outlook to only fetch headers and not bodies, when syncing. For the most part, bringing up individual messages is fine, haven't seen that fail. So, with that tweak to the outlook config, things are working error-free again for our users...but it was certainly an unexpected situation to tackle.
Also, we found a marked improvement connecting via SSL on 993 than we do unencrypted on 143.
I can definitely confirm 100% there is a regression in dovecot 2.2 that severely impacts the performance of outlook (but works great with everything else).
Let me know if I can help you track this down Timo.
Andy
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:40 PM, Timo Sirainen tss@iki.fi wrote:
On 5.6.2014, at 20.23, Robert Schetterer rs@sys4.de wrote:
On 5.6.2014, at 17.41, Martin Rabl martin.rabl@rablnet.de wrote:
Am 05.06.2014 16:38, schrieb Timo Sirainen: > Has anybody noticed Outlook 2007 & 2010 (but apparently not 2013) hanging IMAP connections with Dovecot v2.2 (but not v2.1) when they're FETCHing large mails? I can't think of any reasonable explanation for this. how large? I don't know yet if the mail size is even relevant. At least one hang was caused by downloading ~55 MB mail where it stopped just before the last 400 kB.
I find it strange that v2.2 has been out for a long time and nobody before this complained about any hangs. 55 MB mail may are rare ,i can test it ,but it will need some time ( old outlook install on clean new windows system....)
Am 05.06.2014 17:02, schrieb Timo Sirainen: perhaps anyone has an existing setup which could do it faster Happens also with smaller mails, for example 3 MB and I think there were also even smaller ones like 1 MB. I see that once Outlook tried to download the same 3 MB mail 3 times and it stopped reading it when it had 400 kB left, but the 4th time succeeded. Dovecot sent exactly the same data with the same TCP packet boundaries all times (at least to Dovecot proxy - would have to look with tcpdump further to see if proxy does something differently..)
Anyway, nobody in general has had trouble with Dovecot v2.2 and Outlook 2007/2010? Maybe the problem is something else, although strange if it started happening only immediately after Dovecot upgrade.
Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein
On 6/7/2014 10:46 AM, Kilburn Abrahams kilburna@gmail.com wrote:
These users have 50GB+ mailboxes using IMAP.
What mailbox format (maildir? dbox? mbox?)?
On 06/09/2014 02:58 AM, Charles Marcus wrote:
On 6/7/2014 10:46 AM, Kilburn Abrahams kilburna@gmail.com wrote:
These users have 50GB+ mailboxes using IMAP.
What mailbox format (maildir? dbox? mbox?)? Maildir++. I have got most Outlook users to remove delete items so the size ~ 30GB with the exception of 2 users that I want to keep for testing. I switched to fetch headers. It seemed to reduce the error a bit but I don't know if this is factor of mail reduction or headers.
Either way, there is a regression in 2.2.
On 5.6.2014, at 17.38, Timo Sirainen tss@iki.fi wrote:
Has anybody noticed Outlook 2007 & 2010 (but apparently not 2013) hanging IMAP connections with Dovecot v2.2 (but not v2.1) when they're FETCHing large mails? I can't think of any reasonable explanation for this.
Most likely solved by: http://hg.dovecot.org/dovecot-2.2/rev/6a9508d28d34
Strange that it didn't break more commonly or that more people weren't complaining about it.. The bug has been there since v2.2.7.
On 06/09/2014 05:21, Timo Sirainen wrote:
On 5.6.2014, at 17.38, Timo Sirainen tss@iki.fi wrote:
Has anybody noticed Outlook 2007 & 2010 (but apparently not 2013) hanging IMAP connections with Dovecot v2.2 (but not v2.1) when they're FETCHing large mails? I can't think of any reasonable explanation for this.
Most likely solved by: http://hg.dovecot.org/dovecot-2.2/rev/6a9508d28d34 [1]
Strange that it didn't break more commonly or that more people weren't complaining about it.. The bug has been there since v2.2.7.
Thank you Timo. This patch did indeed correct the problem, we had no problem doing full syncs with the problematic accounts after implementing this.
Is it perhaps something that only happens with directory/proxy environments? I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned before, I figured it was something particular to our implementation since nobody else was mentioning it, until you did.
Fascinating to me that it only affects Outlook as well. I don't understand the code well enough to grasp the impact of the bug, so if somebody has a minute to share an explanation that would be cool.
Andy
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Links:
[1] http://hg.dovecot.org/dovecot-2.2/rev/6a9508d28d34 [2] http://www.xecu.net/ [3] https://twitter.com/Xecunet [4] http://www.facebook.com/xecunet
On 9.6.2014, at 20.49, Andy Dills andy@xecu.net wrote:
Has anybody noticed Outlook 2007 & 2010 (but apparently not 2013) hanging IMAP connections with Dovecot v2.2 (but not v2.1) when they're FETCHing large mails? I can't think of any reasonable explanation for this.
Most likely solved by: http://hg.dovecot.org/dovecot-2.2/rev/6a9508d28d34 [1]
Strange that it didn't break more commonly or that more people weren't complaining about it.. The bug has been there since v2.2.7.
Thank you Timo. This patch did indeed correct the problem, we had no problem doing full syncs with the problematic accounts after implementing this.
Is it perhaps something that only happens with directory/proxy environments? I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned before, I figured it was something particular to our implementation since nobody else was mentioning it, until you did.
Fascinating to me that it only affects Outlook as well. I don't understand the code well enough to grasp the impact of the bug, so if somebody has a minute to share an explanation that would be cool.
Only happened when using Dovecot proxy. Only happened if client sent a command while another long running command was already sending data. So basically if Outlook started downloading a large mail on background and user clicked another mail, the already running FETCH was stopped because Outlook sent another FETCH command to the same connection. I guess Outlook was the only client to do that.
The dude you forced to leave the list last year tweeted about this problem in February, so it was noticed back then, apparently Noel said "CBF reporting the issue as the fucker would ignore me anyway, 'n if he did read it, wld prolly blame my config"
I'll forward your patch and see what he says LOL
On 6/10/14, Timo Sirainen tss@iki.fi wrote:
On 9.6.2014, at 20.49, Andy Dills andy@xecu.net wrote:
Has anybody noticed Outlook 2007 & 2010 (but apparently not 2013) hanging IMAP connections with Dovecot v2.2 (but not v2.1) when they're FETCHing large mails? I can't think of any reasonable explanation for this.
Most likely solved by: http://hg.dovecot.org/dovecot-2.2/rev/6a9508d28d34 [1]
Strange that it didn't break more commonly or that more people weren't complaining about it.. The bug has been there since v2.2.7.
Thank you Timo. This patch did indeed correct the problem, we had no problem doing full syncs with the problematic accounts after implementing this.
Is it perhaps something that only happens with directory/proxy environments? I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned before, I figured it was something particular to our implementation since nobody else was mentioning it, until you did.
Fascinating to me that it only affects Outlook as well. I don't understand the code well enough to grasp the impact of the bug, so if somebody has a minute to share an explanation that would be cool.
Only happened when using Dovecot proxy. Only happened if client sent a command while another long running command was already sending data. So basically if Outlook started downloading a large mail on background and user clicked another mail, the already running FETCH was stopped because Outlook sent another FETCH command to the same connection. I guess Outlook was the only client to do that.
participants (7)
-
Andy Dills
-
Charles Marcus
-
Kilburn Abrahams
-
Martin Rabl
-
Nick Edwards
-
Robert Schetterer
-
Timo Sirainen