Hello all…
First, a disclaimer…I am aware that this is very likely not a Dovecot related issue but I am truly pulling whatever hair I have left out of my head and given the brain-power of this mailer, I thought someone might know what is going in here.
The issues is this…
I check the message counts for a given account using doveadm and get a given number. I then configure the same account in 3 mail clients: Apple Mail, Mailmate, and Thunderbird. Both the Mailmate and Thunderbird message counts match exactly with the doveadm numbers. Apple Mail is low in almost all cases.
I have tried every idea I have found including:
— Delete and recreate the mail account — Rebuild mailbox — Resync mailbox — Reindex Spotlight — Removing the "~/Library/Mail/V*/Envelope*” files; restart Mail — Remove the entire "~/Library/Mail/V*” directory; restart Mail
So, at wit’s end and again, apologies for this not being a Dovecot-centric issue but I know you are all on top of this stuff and may have an idea…
Thanks in advance...
One last datapoint…
If I right-clink on a given account in Apple Mail, the message counts there actually match what doveadm tells me. But looking at the message counts in the main Mail application pane, those counts are low. I initially thought this could just be cosmetic but I then confirmed that messages are missing — in some cases over 1000 messages — but again, only on the Apple client. If I go to Mailmate or Thunderbird, the messages are there...
I have also confirmed that Apple “features” such as mail filtering, Junk mail, etc. are disabled...
On Jul 28, 2020, at 12:35 PM, Antonio Leding tech@leding.net wrote:
Hello all…
First, a disclaimer…I am aware that this is very likely not a Dovecot related issue but I am truly pulling whatever hair I have left out of my head and given the brain-power of this mailer, I thought someone might know what is going in here.
The issues is this…
I check the message counts for a given account using doveadm and get a given number. I then configure the same account in 3 mail clients: Apple Mail, Mailmate, and Thunderbird. Both the Mailmate and Thunderbird message counts match exactly with the doveadm numbers. Apple Mail is low in almost all cases.
I have tried every idea I have found including:
— Delete and recreate the mail account — Rebuild mailbox — Resync mailbox — Reindex Spotlight — Removing the "~/Library/Mail/V*/Envelope*” files; restart Mail — Remove the entire "~/Library/Mail/V*” directory; restart Mail
So, at wit’s end and again, apologies for this not being a Dovecot-centric issue but I know you are all on top of this stuff and may have an idea…
Thanks in advance...
"Antonio" == Antonio Leding tech@leding.net writes:
Antonio> Hello all… Antonio> First, a disclaimer…I am aware that this is very likely not a Dovecot related issue but I am truly pulling whatever hair I have left out of my head and given the brain-power of this mailer, I thought someone might know what is going in here.
Antonio> The issues is this…
Antonio> I check the message counts for a given account using doveadm Antonio> and get a given number. I then configure the same account in Antonio> 3 mail clients: Apple Mail, Mailmate, and Thunderbird. Both Antonio> the Mailmate and Thunderbird message counts match exactly Antonio> with the doveadm numbers. Apple Mail is low in almost all Antonio> cases.
I think the problem is that Apple probably uses "SELECT INBOX" instead of "EXAMINE" mailbox. Look in the archives for my question about this issue back in Oct 1, 2019. It's a client issue, and (imho) a mistake in the IMAP specification. But I haven't spent any time reading the spec closely to understand the reasoning.
John
Hi John,
Thanks a million for your insight. I believe this is the thread to which you refer:
https://dovecot.org/pipermail/dovecot/2019-October/117219.html https://dovecot.org/pipermail/dovecot/2019-October/117219.html
On Jul 30, 2020, at 5:48 AM, John Stoffel john@stoffel.org wrote:
"Antonio" == Antonio Leding tech@leding.net writes:
Antonio> Hello all… Antonio> First, a disclaimer…I am aware that this is very likely not a Dovecot related issue but I am truly pulling whatever hair I have left out of my head and given the brain-power of this mailer, I thought someone might know what is going in here.
Antonio> The issues is this…
Antonio> I check the message counts for a given account using doveadm Antonio> and get a given number. I then configure the same account in Antonio> 3 mail clients: Apple Mail, Mailmate, and Thunderbird. Both Antonio> the Mailmate and Thunderbird message counts match exactly Antonio> with the doveadm numbers. Apple Mail is low in almost all Antonio> cases.
I think the problem is that Apple probably uses "SELECT INBOX" instead of "EXAMINE" mailbox. Look in the archives for my question about this issue back in Oct 1, 2019. It's a client issue, and (imho) a mistake in the IMAP specification. But I haven't spent any time reading the spec closely to understand the reasoning.
John
Antonio> Thanks a million for your insight. I believe this is the thread to which you refer:
Antonio> https://dovecot.org/pipermail/dovecot/2019-October/117219.html
Yes, that's the thread. It looks like it's an Apple Mail client bug/feature/screwup. I hate it, since it messes up my main text based mail reader doing IMAP.
Maybe I need to move to Mutt finally. Ugh... re-programming my fingers for a new mail reader won't be fun at all.
John
Antonio> On Jul 30, 2020, at 5:48 AM, John Stoffel john@stoffel.org wrote:
Antonio> "Antonio" == Antonio Leding tech@leding.net writes:
Antonio> Hello all… Antonio> First, a disclaimer…I am aware that this is very likely not a Dovecot related issue Antonio> but I am truly pulling whatever hair I have left out of my head and given the brain-power of Antonio> this mailer, I thought someone might know what is going in here.
Antonio> The issues is this…
Antonio> I check the message counts for a given account using doveadm Antonio> and get a given number. I then configure the same account in Antonio> 3 mail clients: Apple Mail, Mailmate, and Thunderbird. Both Antonio> the Mailmate and Thunderbird message counts match exactly Antonio> with the doveadm numbers. Apple Mail is low in almost all Antonio> cases.
Antonio> I think the problem is that Apple probably uses "SELECT INBOX" instead Antonio> of "EXAMINE" mailbox. Look in the archives for my question about this Antonio> issue back in Oct 1, 2019. It's a client issue, and (imho) a mistake Antonio> in the IMAP specification. But I haven't spent any time reading the Antonio> spec closely to understand the reasoning.
Antonio> John
Agreed…
Is Mailmate an option for you?
On Aug 10, 2020, at 7:51 PM, John Stoffel john@stoffel.org wrote:
Antonio> Thanks a million for your insight. I believe this is the thread to which you refer:
Antonio> https://dovecot.org/pipermail/dovecot/2019-October/117219.html
Yes, that's the thread. It looks like it's an Apple Mail client bug/feature/screwup. I hate it, since it messes up my main text based mail reader doing IMAP.
Maybe I need to move to Mutt finally. Ugh... re-programming my fingers for a new mail reader won't be fun at all.
John
Antonio> On Jul 30, 2020, at 5:48 AM, John Stoffel john@stoffel.org wrote:
Antonio> "Antonio" == Antonio Leding tech@leding.net writes:
Antonio> Hello all… Antonio> First, a disclaimer…I am aware that this is very likely not a Dovecot related issue Antonio> but I am truly pulling whatever hair I have left out of my head and given the brain-power of Antonio> this mailer, I thought someone might know what is going in here.
Antonio> The issues is this…
Antonio> I check the message counts for a given account using doveadm Antonio> and get a given number. I then configure the same account in Antonio> 3 mail clients: Apple Mail, Mailmate, and Thunderbird. Both Antonio> the Mailmate and Thunderbird message counts match exactly Antonio> with the doveadm numbers. Apple Mail is low in almost all Antonio> cases.
Antonio> I think the problem is that Apple probably uses "SELECT INBOX" instead Antonio> of "EXAMINE" mailbox. Look in the archives for my question about this Antonio> issue back in Oct 1, 2019. It's a client issue, and (imho) a mistake Antonio> in the IMAP specification. But I haven't spent any time reading the Antonio> spec closely to understand the reasoning.
Antonio> John
Antonio> Agreed… Is Mailmate an option for you?
Never heard of it, will have to look into it. I'd be willing to change the iPhone mail reader for sure, the Apple one kinda sucks overall, especially for sorting and such. IMHO.
On Aug 10, 2020, at 7:51 PM, John Stoffel john@stoffel.org wrote:
Antonio> Thanks a million for your insight. I believe this is the thread to which you refer:
Antonio> https://dovecot.org/pipermail/dovecot/2019-October/117219.html
Yes, that's the thread. It looks like it's an Apple Mail client bug/feature/screwup. I hate it, since it messes up my main text based mail reader doing IMAP.
Maybe I need to move to Mutt finally. Ugh... re-programming my fingers for a new mail reader won't be fun at all.
John
Antonio> On Jul 30, 2020, at 5:48 AM, John Stoffel john@stoffel.org wrote:
Antonio> "Antonio" == Antonio Leding tech@leding.net writes:
Antonio> Hello all… Antonio> First, a disclaimer…I am aware that this is very likely not a Dovecot related issue Antonio> but I am truly pulling whatever hair I have left out of my head and given the brain-power of Antonio> this mailer, I thought someone might know what is going in here.
Antonio> The issues is this…
Antonio> I check the message counts for a given account using doveadm Antonio> and get a given number. I then configure the same account in Antonio> 3 mail clients: Apple Mail, Mailmate, and Thunderbird. Both Antonio> the Mailmate and Thunderbird message counts match exactly Antonio> with the doveadm numbers. Apple Mail is low in almost all Antonio> cases.
Antonio> I think the problem is that Apple probably uses "SELECT INBOX" instead Antonio> of "EXAMINE" mailbox. Look in the archives for my question about this Antonio> issue back in Oct 1, 2019. It's a client issue, and (imho) a mistake Antonio> in the IMAP specification. But I haven't spent any time reading the Antonio> spec closely to understand the reasoning.
Antonio> John
"John" == John Stoffel john@stoffel.org writes:
Antonio> Agreed… Is Mailmate an option for you?
John> Never heard of it, will have to look into it. I'd be willing to John> change the iPhone mail reader for sure, the Apple one kinda John> sucks overall, especially for sorting and such. IMHO.
And it's not going to work for me. I use Linux and Emacs and an elisp mail reader called 'viewmail' for most of my day to day email needs. I've been using it for 25 years now, and while it's not the fasted with IMAP handling, it's fast for me and lets me do all I need to do without using the mouse, over a simple SSH connection from anywhere, and I can edit email with Emacs, my prefered keybindings for editing.
So if I could make mutt morph into the viewmail keybindings and use the basic emacs editing key-strokes, I'd probably be in heaven. Maybe.
My weakness is not being able to grok elisp (or lisp for that matter) worth a damn. It just isn't a language I can wrap my head around. I guess I need to get laid off my current $WORK so I could just dive in an spend six months learning elisp and wrapping my brain around it. Hah! Not gonna happen. *grin*
John
participants (2)
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Antonio Leding
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John Stoffel