How to limit Apple Mail (desktop)?
By default, Apple Mail downloads all e-mails from server's account. Previous versions of this client allowed to opt-out. The latest two versions? however, only allow to opt-out from downloading the attachments.
The stress on the server is unbearable. We cannot ask users to be considerate: this is the default behaviour of Apple Mail.
We need a server-side solution to the problem.
Please share your ideas.
Am 30.10.2017 um 10:38 schrieb Rupert Gallagher:
By default, Apple Mail downloads all e-mails from server's account. Previous versions of this client allowed to opt-out. The latest two versions? however, only allow to opt-out from downloading the attachments.
The stress on the server is unbearable. We cannot ask users to be considerate: this is the default behaviour of Apple Mail.
We need a server-side solution to the problem.
Please share your ideas.
first check if you can ident Apple Mail versions related, i recent have none in my log , but i.e Android does
---log ID sent: name=com.samsung.android.email.provider, os=android, os-version=7.0; NRD90M, vendor=samsung, x-android-device-model=SM-G930F
then you need a procedure for limit....i have no idea which one
Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Schleißheimer Straße 26/MG, 80333 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein
Am 30.10.2017 um 17:50 schrieb Robert Schetterer:
Am 30.10.2017 um 10:38 schrieb Rupert Gallagher:
By default, Apple Mail downloads all e-mails from server's account. Previous versions of this client allowed to opt-out. The latest two versions? however, only allow to opt-out from downloading the attachments.
The stress on the server is unbearable. We cannot ask users to be considerate: this is the default behaviour of Apple Mail.
We need a server-side solution to the problem.
Please share your ideas.
first check if you can ident Apple Mail versions related, i recent have none in my log , but i.e Android does
---log ID sent: name=com.samsung.android.email.provider, os=android, os-version=7.0; NRD90M, vendor=samsung, x-android-device-model=SM-G930F
then you need a procedure for limit....i have no idea which one
Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer
I dont know Apple Mail very good, but as workaround you might use sieve to presort mails on the server at incomming in (sub)folders which arent synced at default i.e in a date named folder, for sure users ( you should know your apple mail users ) then need configure an extra subscribe on these folders. Perhaps a combi with virtual folders may usefull , for now not better idea , iam nearly sure this is not what you you expected and/or wanted
seems google has a feature to "hide" mails
see
https://www.guidingtech.com/44581/prevent-mail-app-space-mac/
however if feel very strange with this
Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Schleißheimer Straße 26/MG, 80333 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein
When Apple Mail connects to an IMAP account for the very first time, it downloads all e-mails to build a local mirror.
When the user changes the name of a folder, Apple Mail downloads the whole subtree and erases the old one.
We have Apple Mail users with >20GB worth of e-mails, downloaded multiple times (horrified emoticon here).
Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 10:38 AM, Rupert Gallagher <ruga@protonmail.com> wrote:
By default, Apple Mail downloads all e-mails from server's account. Previous versions of this client allowed to opt-out. The latest two versions? however, only allow to opt-out from downloading the attachments.
The stress on the server is unbearable. We cannot ask users to be considerate: this is the default behaviour of Apple Mail.
We need a server-side solution to the problem.
Please share your ideas.
On 31 Oct 2017, at 8.42, Rupert Gallagher <ruga@protonmail.com> wrote:
When Apple Mail connects to an IMAP account for the very first time, it downloads all e-mails to build a local mirror.
When the user changes the name of a folder, Apple Mail downloads the whole subtree and erases the old one.
We have Apple Mail users with >20GB worth of e-mails, downloaded multiple times (horrified emoticon here).
Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
I can’t think of any easy way to rate limit Apple mail. Only thing that crossed my mind is to enable ID response logging and then with some logwatch process use some traffic shaping solution to limit the bandwith of that particular connection after some period of time.
Sami
Hi,
On 30.10.2017 10:38, Rupert Gallagher wrote:
We need a server-side solution to the problem.
more powerfull hardware?
What's in your mind as solution?
Don't tell the client about the mails -> user will miss old mails.
Stop him from fetching body with a temporary "UNAVAILABLE" failure? -> Don't know how apple mail will react, but probably present some error to the user for every mail.
The only possibility that would make sense to me is some form of rate limiting to reduce the server load. Give them some tens of Megabytes w/o any restriction, then reduce.
Regards Moritz
What's in your mind as solution?
When dovecot receives many full body downloads from a client, it could respond by sending the header only.
Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 11:29 AM, <ml+dovecot@moritz.augsburger.name> wrote:
Hi, On 30.10.2017 10:38, Rupert Gallagher wrote: > We need a server-side solution to the problem. more powerfull hardware? What's in your mind as solution? Don't tell the client about the mails -> user will miss old mails. Stop him from fetching body with a temporary "UNAVAILABLE" failure? -> Don't know how apple mail will react, but probably present some error to the user for every mail. The only possibility that would make sense to me is some form of rate limiting to reduce the server load. Give them some tens of Megabytes w/o any restriction, then reduce. Regards Moritz
On 31.10.2017 14:44, Rupert Gallagher wrote:
What's in your mind as solution? When dovecot receives many full body downloads from a client, it could respond by sending the header only. This sounds rather dangerous. Client is expecting full body download, not headers.
Aki
Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 11:29 AM, <ml+dovecot@moritz.augsburger.name> wrote:
Hi, On 30.10.2017 10:38, Rupert Gallagher wrote: > We need a server-side solution to the problem. more powerfull hardware? What's in your mind as solution? Don't tell the client about the mails -> user will miss old mails. Stop him from fetching body with a temporary "UNAVAILABLE" failure? -> Don't know how apple mail will react, but probably present some error to the user for every mail. The only possibility that would make sense to me is some form of rate limiting to reduce the server load. Give them some tens of Megabytes w/o any restriction, then reduce. Regards Moritz
Aki, the IMAP client can receive the e-mails with an empty body without any damage. This is how IMAP works normally. The full body is queried again by the client when reading the e-mail for real.
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Aki Tuomi <aki.tuomi@dovecot.fi> wrote:
What's in your mind as solution?
When dovecot receives many full body downloads from a client, it could respond by sending the header only.
This sounds rather dangerous. Client is expecting full body download, not headers. Aki
I think I am not mistaken in saying that the original purpose of IMAP was to access a remote database, vs POP's approach to download it. When the IMAP client opens a folder, the server uploads the *index* of its content. When the client requests a specific item, the server uploads the item while keeping the original. If the client renames a folder, the server just renames the folder.
Apple Mail behaves like a POP client that wants to download everything while keeping the db on the server. Further down Apple's madness, if the client renames a folder, Apple mail asks the server to upload the full content of the "new" folder. Batshit crazy!
The very best therapy here is, in my opinion, to serve Apple Mail's request for mass download as if it were a regular IMAP index request, if technically feasible. If it is not feasible, then the alternative is not to rate limit the connection, but to ban Apple Mail entirely.
Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 2:46 PM, Rupert Gallagher <ruga@protonmail.com> wrote:
Aki, the IMAP client can receive the e-mails with an empty body without any damage. This is how IMAP works normally. The full body is queried again by the client when reading the e-mail for real.
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Aki Tuomi <aki.tuomi@dovecot.fi> wrote:
What's in your mind as solution?
When dovecot receives many full body downloads from a client, it could respond by sending the header only.
This sounds rather dangerous. Client is expecting full body download, not headers. Aki
On 31 Oct 2017, at 14.44, Rupert Gallagher <ruga@protonmail.com> wrote:
What's in your mind as solution?
When dovecot receives many full body downloads from a client, it could respond by sending the header only.
That would not be nice. Breaking IMAP protocol that way. Some rate limiting would be better solution.
Sami
If you use Linux you can use netfilter (iptables) mark feature to track individual connections from a given IP, and above a threshold you can shape the bandwitdh based on those iptables mark. For example, if an IMAP connection from ip X exceed 100 megabytes of data, bandwitdh for that ip would be limited to 100 KB/sec (or whatever number). First 100 megabytes, top speed, above that they get slower.
Regards
María
El 30/10/17 a las 10:38, Rupert Gallagher escribió:
By default, Apple Mail downloads all e-mails from server's account. Previous versions of this client allowed to opt-out. The latest two versions? however, only allow to opt-out from downloading the attachments.
The stress on the server is unbearable. We cannot ask users to be considerate: this is the default behaviour of Apple Mail.
We need a server-side solution to the problem.
Please share your ideas.
Am 31.10.2017 um 14:06 schrieb María Arrea:
If you use Linux you can use netfilter (iptables) mark feature to track individual connections from a given IP, and above a threshold you can shape the bandwitdh based on those iptables mark. For example, if an IMAP connection from ip X exceed 100 megabytes of data, bandwitdh for that ip would be limited to 100 KB/sec (or whatever number). First 100 megabytes, top speed, above that they get slower.
dont think this will work tons of cons can come from a nat ip so you would punish everyone behind that ip ,not only apple mail
i see no real solution for the problem, cause if the server works out some slow down this would only lead to longer download times, but will no solve the orig wanted task. It will all be workarounds for a "buggy" client
Regards
María
El 30/10/17 a las 10:38, Rupert Gallagher escribió:
By default, Apple Mail downloads all e-mails from server's account. Previous versions of this client allowed to opt-out. The latest two versions? however, only allow to opt-out from downloading the attachments.
The stress on the server is unbearable. We cannot ask users to be considerate: this is the default behaviour of Apple Mail.
We need a server-side solution to the problem.
Please share your ideas.
Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Schleißheimer Straße 26/MG, 80333 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein
El 31/10/17 a las 15:30, Robert Schetterer escribió:
Am 31.10.2017 um 14:06 schrieb María Arrea:
If you use Linux you can use netfilter (iptables) mark feature to track individual connections from a given IP, and above a threshold you can shape the bandwitdh based on those iptables mark. For example, if an IMAP connection from ip X exceed 100 megabytes of data, bandwitdh for that ip would be limited to 100 KB/sec (or whatever number). First 100 megabytes, top speed, above that they get slower. dont think this will work tons of cons can come from a nat ip so you would punish everyone behind that ip ,not only apple mail
Not true. You set a connection tracking using ip+port, not only IP.
i see no real solution for the problem, cause if the server works out some slow down this would only lead to longer download times, but will no solve the orig wanted task. It will all be workarounds for a "buggy" client
Original post talked about "unbearable server load". Shapping network traffic will definitely help with that.
María.
participants (6)
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Aki Tuomi
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María Arrea
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ml+dovecot＠moritz.augsburger.name
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Robert Schetterer
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Rupert Gallagher
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Sami Ketola