[Dovecot] dovecot and avahi
I am trying to figure out if I need avahi on my mail server. I see that POP3 and IMAP are services that Avahi can advertise/discover. Does Dovecot work with Avahi and how do you get POP3 and IMAP advertised?
And perhaps more importantly, what clients look for mail services this way?
I can't find any information on this in the Dovecot documentation ot googling. Perhaps my search fu is low this year.
thank you
Am 01.01.2013 17:07, schrieb Robert Moskowitz:
I am trying to figure out if I need avahi on my mail server. I see that POP3 and IMAP are services that Avahi can advertise/discover. Does Dovecot work with Avahi and how do you get POP3 and IMAP advertised?
And perhaps more importantly, what clients look for mail services this way?
avahi does NOT get routed to internet
since most clienst are not in the private network why would someone advertise mail-services via avahi?
On 01/01/2013 11:13 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 01.01.2013 17:07, schrieb Robert Moskowitz:
I am trying to figure out if I need avahi on my mail server. I see that POP3 and IMAP are services that Avahi can advertise/discover. Does Dovecot work with Avahi and how do you get POP3 and IMAP advertised?
And perhaps more importantly, what clients look for mail services this way? avahi does NOT get routed to internet
since most clienst are not in the private network why would someone advertise mail-services via avahi?
For clients on your local net.
Why are the services POP3 and IMAP in the Avahi database? try
ahavi-browse -b
Say a small business is running a local mail server, perhaps using fetchmail to get their gmail accounts and such. And they have a bunch of MACs in the office. How were mail clients discovering the local mail server? Apple users like automagic stuff.
Note I have NOT used, and rarely agreed to support Apple systems since the Lisa.
Am 01.01.2013 17:23, schrieb Robert Moskowitz:
Say a small business is running a local mail server, perhaps using fetchmail to get their gmail accounts and such. And they have a bunch of MACs in the office. How were mail clients discovering the local mail server? Apple users like automagic stuff.
who cares what the users like? in business usually the admin setup the computers
even for private users: someone who is not able to enter servername, username and password should not use email at all because these are usually the same sending to their whole address book as CC
Reindl Harald skrev den 2013-01-01 18:00:
someone who is not able to enter servername, username and password should not use email at all because these are usually the same sending to their whole address book as CC
lol, seriously you should make several security fixes in Roundcube if you master all of the above
Am 03.01.2013 00:03, schrieb Benny Pedersen:
Reindl Harald skrev den 2013-01-01 18:00:
someone who is not able to enter servername, username and password should not use email at all because these are usually the same sending to their whole address book as CC
lol, seriously you should make several security fixes in Roundcube if you master all of the above
even a trained monkey can master all of the above
Saw this gem and had to comment on it...
Reindl Harald wrote:
who cares what the users like? in business usually the admin setup the computers
The 'admin'? Admin of what? IT department? Why would a company have an IT department if it doesn't care about users?
You seem to forget that the purpose of IT is to support the users and make their life easy so they can get their job done without having to be an expert in your field. If they are an expert in your field, you are not needed.
The only point of GUI's and UI's, is to benefit users. If you don't care what they want, then how can you benefit them?
You might consider, that among users at a company are usually people with titles like 'CEO', president, payroll, hiring-manager... etc...
How would one keep a job if they don't care what their boss wants?
Am 03.01.2013 20:53, schrieb L. A. Walsh:
Saw this gem and had to comment on it...
Reindl Harald wrote:
who cares what the users like? in business usually the admin setup the computers
The 'admin'? Admin of what? IT department? Why would a company have an IT department if it doesn't care about users?
in WHICH company the users itself do setup their mail-accounts? the job of the IT department is setup and confifure the machines suaully a user must not config anything at all
You seem to forget that the purpose of IT is to support the users and make their life easy so they can get their job done without having to be an expert in your field. If they are an expert in your field, you are not needed.
if they users setup their mail-clients and software by theirself you are really not needed
so rcap like avahi is not for the users in a comapany it is for the sake of the lazy admin
The only point of GUI's and UI's, is to benefit users. If you don't care what they want, then how can you benefit them?
i benefit them by setup their machines at all this includes amil accounts
You might consider, that among users at a company are usually people with titles like 'CEO', president, payroll, hiring-manager... etc... How would one keep a job if they don't care what their boss wants?
what has this to do with the fact that nobody needs avahi?
On 01-01-13 17:13, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 01.01.2013 17:07, schrieb Robert Moskowitz:
I am trying to figure out if I need avahi on my mail server. I see that POP3 and IMAP are services that Avahi can advertise/discover. Does Dovecot work with Avahi and how do you get POP3 and IMAP advertised?
And perhaps more importantly, what clients look for mail services this way?
avahi does NOT get routed to internet
since most clienst are not in the private network why would someone advertise mail-services via avahi?
If you want to advertise your mail config for easy setup over the internet, take a look at: http://www.automx.org/
-- Tom
On 01/01/2013 11:24 AM, Tom Hendrikx wrote:
On 01-01-13 17:13, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 01.01.2013 17:07, schrieb Robert Moskowitz:
I am trying to figure out if I need avahi on my mail server. I see that POP3 and IMAP are services that Avahi can advertise/discover. Does Dovecot work with Avahi and how do you get POP3 and IMAP advertised?
And perhaps more importantly, what clients look for mail services this way? avahi does NOT get routed to internet
since most clienst are not in the private network why would someone advertise mail-services via avahi?
If you want to advertise your mail config for easy setup over the internet, take a look at: http://www.automx.org/
Not something I was looking for, but very interesting!
Definitely worth a review. AFTER I get other things done. The number of users I have, I can support the old ways. RIght now I am just working through what each thing does and why I MIGHT need it.
At 5PM +0100 on 1/01/13 you (Tom Hendrikx) wrote:
If you want to advertise your mail config for easy setup over the internet, take a look at: http://www.automx.org/
I thought most gooey mail clients supported RFC 6186 nowadays?
Ben
On 01/01/2013 12:01 PM, Ben Morrow wrote:
At 5PM +0100 on 1/01/13 you (Tom Hendrikx) wrote:
If you want to advertise your mail config for easy setup over the internet, take a look at: http://www.automx.org/ I thought most gooey mail clients supported RFC 6186 nowadays?
Thunderbird does. Much more reasonable approach over Avahi which is only for those Apple users on the local net anyway ;)
On 01-01-13 18:01, Ben Morrow wrote:
At 5PM +0100 on 1/01/13 you (Tom Hendrikx) wrote:
If you want to advertise your mail config for easy setup over the internet, take a look at: http://www.automx.org/
I thought most gooey mail clients supported RFC 6186 nowadays?
Ben
As you can see from their docs, it supports a lot more than what you can put in SRV DNS records AFAIK. I don't use either of the solutions actively, and don't support any client setups so I don't really know what is currently available in clients, and needed or superior on server side.
-- Tom
- Tom Hendrikx <dovecot@dovecot.org>:
On 01-01-13 18:01, Ben Morrow wrote:
At 5PM +0100 on 1/01/13 you (Tom Hendrikx) wrote:
If you want to advertise your mail config for easy setup over the internet, take a look at: http://www.automx.org/
I thought most gooey mail clients supported RFC 6186 nowadays?
Ben
As you can see from their docs, it supports a lot more than what you can put in SRV DNS records AFAIK. I don't use either of the solutions actively, and don't support any client setups so I don't really know what is currently available in clients, and needed or superior on server side.
automx combines Mozillas autoconfig service and Microsofts autodiscover service in one tool. With automx you can provision SMTP/POP/IMAP and ActiveSync account settings (but not the services themselves).
Microsoft Outlook 2007+, Thunderbird 3+, Microsoft Mobiles and other mobiles known to support ActiveSync can make use of the automx webservice.
Apple products do not support either MS' or MZ's provisioning services. AFAIK the only way to configure these clients is to store an XML file at a dedicated location in advance, use the Apple Configurator or go the real hard way and use Mobile Device Management (MDM) services.
The aforementioned RFC 6186 has shortcommings compared to autodiscover/autoconfig-services: You can tell the service location (URI) and port, but you can't specify transport policies (plaintext, SSL, STARTTLS), authentication mechanisms etc. I would not want to use it in a business environment.
p@rick
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Axel von der Ohe, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Joerg Heidrich
On 01/01/2013 01:39 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
- Tom Hendrikx <dovecot@dovecot.org>:
On 01-01-13 18:01, Ben Morrow wrote:
At 5PM +0100 on 1/01/13 you (Tom Hendrikx) wrote:
If you want to advertise your mail config for easy setup over the internet, take a look at: http://www.automx.org/ I thought most gooey mail clients supported RFC 6186 nowadays?
Ben
As you can see from their docs, it supports a lot more than what you can put in SRV DNS records AFAIK. I don't use either of the solutions actively, and don't support any client setups so I don't really know what is currently available in clients, and needed or superior on server side. automx combines Mozillas autoconfig service and Microsofts autodiscover service in one tool. With automx you can provision SMTP/POP/IMAP and ActiveSync account settings (but not the services themselves).
Microsoft Outlook 2007+, Thunderbird 3+, Microsoft Mobiles and other mobiles known to support ActiveSync can make use of the automx webservice.
Apple products do not support either MS' or MZ's provisioning services. AFAIK the only way to configure these clients is to store an XML file at a dedicated location in advance, use the Apple Configurator or go the real hard way and use Mobile Device Management (MDM) services.
The aforementioned RFC 6186 has shortcommings compared to autodiscover/autoconfig-services: You can tell the service location (URI) and port, but you can't specify transport policies (plaintext, SSL, STARTTLS), authentication mechanisms etc. I would not want to use it in a business environment.
thank you very much for this analysis. SRV records were only intented to find the services that would then set up the policies. There is considerable pushback on using DNS for a general purpose database. I had to fight for my HIP DNS RRs for holding just Host Identities.
I see that it can use SQL for some information handling. Does it work with the sql tables managed by postfixadmin?
- Robert Moskowitz <dovecot@dovecot.org>:
On 01/01/2013 01:39 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
- Tom Hendrikx <dovecot@dovecot.org>:
On 01-01-13 18:01, Ben Morrow wrote:
At 5PM +0100 on 1/01/13 you (Tom Hendrikx) wrote:
If you want to advertise your mail config for easy setup over the internet, take a look at: http://www.automx.org/ I thought most gooey mail clients supported RFC 6186 nowadays?
Ben
As you can see from their docs, it supports a lot more than what you can put in SRV DNS records AFAIK. I don't use either of the solutions actively, and don't support any client setups so I don't really know what is currently available in clients, and needed or superior on server side. automx combines Mozillas autoconfig service and Microsofts autodiscover service in one tool. With automx you can provision SMTP/POP/IMAP and ActiveSync account settings (but not the services themselves).
Microsoft Outlook 2007+, Thunderbird 3+, Microsoft Mobiles and other mobiles known to support ActiveSync can make use of the automx webservice.
Apple products do not support either MS' or MZ's provisioning services. AFAIK the only way to configure these clients is to store an XML file at a dedicated location in advance, use the Apple Configurator or go the real hard way and use Mobile Device Management (MDM) services.
The aforementioned RFC 6186 has shortcommings compared to autodiscover/autoconfig-services: You can tell the service location (URI) and port, but you can't specify transport policies (plaintext, SSL, STARTTLS), authentication mechanisms etc. I would not want to use it in a business environment.
thank you very much for this analysis. SRV records were only intented to find the services that would then set up the policies. There is considerable pushback on using DNS for a general purpose database. I had to fight for my HIP DNS RRs for holding just Host Identities.
I see that it can use SQL for some information handling. Does it work with the sql tables managed by postfixadmin?
We - Christian and I - haven't tried, but I am sure it will, because you are free to define any SQL query you want in automx to get what you want from postfixadmin.
You may also use Modoboa to manage the mailboxes. Antoine just ran a blog article on using automx with it: <http://modoboa.org/en/weblog/2012/12/16/make-users-life-easier-with-automx/>
p@rick
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Axel von der Ohe, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Joerg Heidrich
Am 01.01.2013 20:08, schrieb Patrick Ben Koetter:
- Robert Moskowitz <dovecot@dovecot.org>:
On 01/01/2013 01:39 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
- Tom Hendrikx <dovecot@dovecot.org>:
On 01-01-13 18:01, Ben Morrow wrote:
At 5PM +0100 on 1/01/13 you (Tom Hendrikx) wrote:
If you want to advertise your mail config for easy setup over the internet, take a look at: http://www.automx.org/ I thought most gooey mail clients supported RFC 6186 nowadays?
Ben
As you can see from their docs, it supports a lot more than what you can put in SRV DNS records AFAIK. I don't use either of the solutions actively, and don't support any client setups so I don't really know what is currently available in clients, and needed or superior on server side. automx combines Mozillas autoconfig service and Microsofts autodiscover service in one tool. With automx you can provision SMTP/POP/IMAP and ActiveSync account settings (but not the services themselves).
Microsoft Outlook 2007+, Thunderbird 3+, Microsoft Mobiles and other mobiles known to support ActiveSync can make use of the automx webservice.
typo not "activesync" they do autoconfig
Outlook 2013 can do in deed activesync , but this is off topic here
Apple products do not support either MS' or MZ's provisioning services. AFAIK the only way to configure these clients is to store an XML file at a dedicated location in advance, use the Apple Configurator or go the real hard way and use Mobile Device Management (MDM) services.
The aforementioned RFC 6186 has shortcommings compared to autodiscover/autoconfig-services: You can tell the service location (URI) and port, but you can't specify transport policies (plaintext, SSL, STARTTLS), authentication mechanisms etc. I would not want to use it in a business environment.
thank you very much for this analysis. SRV records were only intented to find the services that would then set up the policies. There is considerable pushback on using DNS for a general purpose database. I had to fight for my HIP DNS RRs for holding just Host Identities.
I see that it can use SQL for some information handling. Does it work with the sql tables managed by postfixadmin?
We - Christian and I - haven't tried, but I am sure it will, because you are free to define any SQL query you want in automx to get what you want from postfixadmin.
You may also use Modoboa to manage the mailboxes. Antoine just ran a blog article on using automx with it: <http://modoboa.org/en/weblog/2012/12/16/make-users-life-easier-with-automx/>
p@rick
Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Axel von der Ohe, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Joerg Heidrich
- Robert Schetterer <rs@sys4.de>:
Am 01.01.2013 20:08, schrieb Patrick Ben Koetter:
- Robert Moskowitz <dovecot@dovecot.org>:
On 01/01/2013 01:39 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
- Tom Hendrikx <dovecot@dovecot.org>:
On 01-01-13 18:01, Ben Morrow wrote:
At 5PM +0100 on 1/01/13 you (Tom Hendrikx) wrote: > If you want to advertise your mail config for easy setup over the > internet, take a look at: http://www.automx.org/ I thought most gooey mail clients supported RFC 6186 nowadays?
Ben
As you can see from their docs, it supports a lot more than what you can put in SRV DNS records AFAIK. I don't use either of the solutions actively, and don't support any client setups so I don't really know what is currently available in clients, and needed or superior on server side. automx combines Mozillas autoconfig service and Microsofts autodiscover service in one tool. With automx you can provision SMTP/POP/IMAP and ActiveSync account settings (but not the services themselves).
Microsoft Outlook 2007+, Thunderbird 3+, Microsoft Mobiles and other mobiles known to support ActiveSync can make use of the automx webservice.
typo not "activesync" they do autoconfig
Robert is wrong. automx can provision activesync accounts.
p@rick
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Axel von der Ohe, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Joerg Heidrich
Am 01.01.2013 21:04, schrieb Patrick Ben Koetter:
- Robert Schetterer <rs@sys4.de>:
Am 01.01.2013 20:08, schrieb Patrick Ben Koetter:
- Robert Moskowitz <dovecot@dovecot.org>:
On 01/01/2013 01:39 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
- Tom Hendrikx <dovecot@dovecot.org>:
On 01-01-13 18:01, Ben Morrow wrote: > At 5PM +0100 on 1/01/13 you (Tom Hendrikx) wrote: >> If you want to advertise your mail config for easy setup over the >> internet, take a look at: http://www.automx.org/ > I thought most gooey mail clients supported RFC 6186 nowadays? > > Ben > As you can see from their docs, it supports a lot more than what you can put in SRV DNS records AFAIK. I don't use either of the solutions actively, and don't support any client setups so I don't really know what is currently available in clients, and needed or superior on server side. automx combines Mozillas autoconfig service and Microsofts autodiscover service in one tool. With automx you can provision SMTP/POP/IMAP and ActiveSync account settings (but not the services themselves).
Microsoft Outlook 2007+, Thunderbird 3+, Microsoft Mobiles and other mobiles known to support ActiveSync can make use of the automx webservice.
typo not "activesync" they do autoconfig
Robert is wrong. automx can provision activesync accounts.
@p for more clearness, thunderbird had never activesync, automx provides propagation for activesync clients via autodiscover method a typical active sync client is ie android mail app in exchange modus
outlook has active sync included native since vers 2013, however autodiscover works since vers 2007+
thunderbirds autoconfig is different from microsoft autodiscover but automx can serve both in one tool
p@rick
Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Axel von der Ohe, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Joerg Heidrich
Am 01.01.2013 21:15, schrieb Robert Schetterer:
outlook has active sync included native since vers 2013, however autodiscover works since vers 2007+
thunderbirds autoconfig is different from microsoft autodiscover but automx can serve both in one tool
the real problem with microsofts autodiscover is that it requires https and as long WinXP is not finally dead you need for each https host a different IP which is not really a option with IPv4 blocks
i had implemented autodisciver by myself
there was some workaround with redirection where "autoddiscover.domain.tld" can be non https and redirct to https://autodiscover.yourcompany.tld
this worked fine even with self signet certificates buzt in very recnet outlook versions you get the damned certificate warning everytime you start outlook and not only by configure the mail account
really braindead compared with the mozilla way
Am 01.01.2013 21:25, schrieb Reindl Harald:
Am 01.01.2013 21:15, schrieb Robert Schetterer:
outlook has active sync included native since vers 2013, however autodiscover works since vers 2007+
thunderbirds autoconfig is different from microsoft autodiscover but automx can serve both in one tool
the real problem with microsofts autodiscover is that it requires https and as long WinXP is not finally dead you need for each https host a different IP which is not really a option with IPv4 blocks
i had implemented autodisciver by myself
there was some workaround with redirection where "autoddiscover.domain.tld" can be non https and redirct to https://autodiscover.yourcompany.tld
this worked fine even with self signet certificates buzt in very recnet outlook versions you get the damned certificate warning everytime you start outlook and not only by configure the mail account
really braindead compared with the mozilla way
Hi Harald ,your right, M$ method is really ..... in some points i use the dns srv way , which has problems with ssl warnings too or needs expensive crts, but however its always the same story, these companies do not try provide perfect code or methods, their goal is to make money, which is still legal
Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Axel von der Ohe, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Joerg Heidrich
participants (8)
-
Ben Morrow
-
Benny Pedersen
-
L. A. Walsh
-
Patrick Ben Koetter
-
Reindl Harald
-
Robert Moskowitz
-
Robert Schetterer
-
Tom Hendrikx