[Dovecot] RFE: IMAP LIST Extension for Special-Use Mailboxes
Timo,
would you consider adding support for "IMAP LIST Extension for Special-Use Mailboxes" http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6154.txt any time near in the future?
I would really love to get rid of all those folders created by all those different mail clients just because they can't agree to use the same folder for special purpose.
Obviously clients need to support it too. Having Dovecot support it certainly would make them adopt the standard sooner.
p@rick
-- state of mind Digitale Kommunikation
Franziskanerstraße 15 Telefon +49 89 3090 4664 81669 München Telefax +49 89 3090 4666
Amtsgericht München Partnerschaftsregister PR 563
On 2011-03-11 4:57 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
Timo,
would you consider adding support for "IMAP LIST Extension for Special-Use Mailboxes" http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6154.txt any time near in the future?
I would really love to get rid of all those folders created by all those different mail clients just because they can't agree to use the same folder for special purpose.
How would implementation of this extension solve that problem??
--
Best regards,
Charles
- Charles Marcus dovecot@dovecot.org:
On 2011-03-11 4:57 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
Timo,
would you consider adding support for "IMAP LIST Extension for Special-Use Mailboxes" http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6154.txt any time near in the future?
I would really love to get rid of all those folders created by all those different mail clients just because they can't agree to use the same folder for special purpose.
How would implementation of this extension solve that problem??
A server may, for example, mark a folder as \Sent.
Any client that connects to such a server can search for a folder that has been attributed as "Sent".
No need to create a new folder "Sent Items" if there's a special folder marked as \Sent. Same goes for clients that insist on calling it "sent" or "Gesendete Objekte" or ...
The RFC reserves a list of special use folders:
\All This mailbox presents all messages in the user's message store. Implementations MAY omit some messages, such as, perhaps, those in \Trash and \Junk. When this special use is supported, it is almost certain to represent a virtual mailbox.
\Archive This mailbox is used to archive messages. The meaning of an "archival" mailbox is server-dependent; typically, it will be used to get messages out of the inbox, or otherwise keep them out of the user's way, while still making them accessible.
\Drafts This mailbox is used to hold draft messages -- typically, messages that are being composed but have not yet been sent. In some server implementations, this might be a virtual mailbox, containing messages from other mailboxes that are marked with the "\Draft" message flag. Alternatively, this might just be advice that a client put drafts here.
\Flagged This mailbox presents all messages marked in some way as "important". When this special use is supported, it is likely to represent a virtual mailbox collecting messages (from other mailboxes) that are marked with the "\Flagged" message flag.
\Junk This mailbox is where messages deemed to be junk mail are held. Some server implementations might put messages here automatically. Alternatively, this might just be advice to a client-side spam filter.
\Sent This mailbox is used to hold copies of messages that have been sent. Some server implementations might put messages here automatically. Alternatively, this might just be advice that a client save sent messages here.
\Trash This mailbox is used to hold messages that have been deleted or marked for deletion. In some server implementations, this might be a virtual mailbox, containing messages from other mailboxes
-- state of mind Digitale Kommunikation
Franziskanerstraße 15 Telefon +49 89 3090 4664 81669 München Telefax +49 89 3090 4666
Amtsgericht München Partnerschaftsregister PR 563
On 2011-03-11 5:31 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
- Charles Marcus dovecot@dovecot.org:
On 2011-03-11 4:57 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
Timo,
would you consider adding support for "IMAP LIST Extension for Special-Use Mailboxes" http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6154.txt any time near in the future?
I would really love to get rid of all those folders created by all those different mail clients just because they can't agree to use the same folder for special purpose.
How would implementation of this extension solve that problem??
A server may, for example, mark a folder as \Sent.
Any client that connects to such a server can search for a folder that has been attributed as "Sent".
Aargh... your message came immediately after the one requesting support for the 'IMAP MOVE extension', and I confused yours and his...
Sorry... and I agree, this would be nice...
--
Best regards,
Charles
On 2011-03-11 5:31 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
Any client that connects to such a server can search for a folder that has been attributed as "Sent".
No need to create a new folder "Sent Items" if there's a special folder marked as \Sent. Same goes for clients that insist on calling it "sent" or "Gesendete Objekte" or ...
Are there any clients that would actually work this way if it was implemented?? Outlook being the main culprit here I assume... ;)
--
Best regards,
Charles
- Charles Marcus dovecot@dovecot.org:
On 2011-03-11 5:31 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
Any client that connects to such a server can search for a folder that has been attributed as "Sent".
No need to create a new folder "Sent Items" if there's a special folder marked as \Sent. Same goes for clients that insist on calling it "sent" or "Gesendete Objekte" or ...
Are there any clients that would actually work this way if it was implemented?? Outlook being the main culprit here I assume... ;)
I don't know of any yet. The RFC is brandnew. But I plan to ask at relevant mailing lists for adoption of the new feature. AFAIK iPhone and gmail actually had done something simliar (XLIST) for their clients and servers.
As for Outlook I am left to speculation. I believe Outlook will be the last, if at all, to work on any IMAP client feature richness. It would cannibalise their own market i.e. using Outlook as Exchange client.
But Thunderbird, Apple Mail, smartphone IMAP clients and of course webmail clients will hopefully adopt the standard. It should be in their interest to implement a feature that mobilizes or eases mobilization in a world full of mobile users.
p@rick
-- state of mind Digitale Kommunikation
Franziskanerstraße 15 Telefon +49 89 3090 4664 81669 München Telefax +49 89 3090 4666
Amtsgericht München Partnerschaftsregister PR 563
Sorry for replying to such an old email, but...
I'm wondering how 'Templates' got left out?
It is a Special folder in Thunderbird that you can't delete - and it is very useful (at least in Thunderbird) as well...
I tried adding it in my dovecot (2.2.10) config, but it complained about an unsupported option...
On 2011-03-11 5:31 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter p@state-of-mind.de wrote:
A server may, for example, mark a folder as \Sent.
Any client that connects to such a server can search for a folder that has been attributed as "Sent".
No need to create a new folder "Sent Items" if there's a special folder marked as \Sent. Same goes for clients that insist on calling it "sent" or "Gesendete Objekte" or ...
The RFC reserves a list of special use folders:
\All This mailbox presents all messages in the user's message store. Implementations MAY omit some messages, such as, perhaps, those in \Trash and \Junk. When this special use is supported, it is almost certain to represent a virtual mailbox. \Archive This mailbox is used to archive messages. The meaning of an "archival" mailbox is server-dependent; typically, it will be used to get messages out of the inbox, or otherwise keep them out of the user's way, while still making them accessible. \Drafts This mailbox is used to hold draft messages -- typically, messages that are being composed but have not yet been sent. In some server implementations, this might be a virtual mailbox, containing messages from other mailboxes that are marked with the "\Draft" message flag. Alternatively, this might just be advice that a client put drafts here. \Flagged This mailbox presents all messages marked in some way as "important". When this special use is supported, it is likely to represent a virtual mailbox collecting messages (from other mailboxes) that are marked with the "\Flagged" message flag. \Junk This mailbox is where messages deemed to be junk mail are held. Some server implementations might put messages here automatically. Alternatively, this might just be advice to a client-side spam filter. \Sent This mailbox is used to hold copies of messages that have been sent. Some server implementations might put messages here automatically. Alternatively, this might just be advice that a client save sent messages here. \Trash This mailbox is used to hold messages that have been deleted or marked for deletion. In some server implementations, this might be a virtual mailbox, containing messages from other mailboxes
- Charles Marcus dovecot@dovecot.org:
Sorry for replying to such an old email, but...
Thank you. You just made me feel very old... ;)
I'm wondering how 'Templates' got left out?
It is a Special folder in Thunderbird that you can't delete - and it is very useful (at least in Thunderbird) as well...
I tried adding it in my dovecot (2.2.10) config, but it complained about an unsupported option...
I searched a few minutes, but couldn't find the link to quote here: Special-Use Mailbox names need to be registered. IIRC Templates didn't make it into the first RFC. I am not aware of a discussion that abandoned it either. Probably, if you gave it a try, you can have it added and Timo will add it afterwards...
p@rick
On 2011-03-11 5:31 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter p@state-of-mind.de wrote:
A server may, for example, mark a folder as \Sent.
Any client that connects to such a server can search for a folder that has been attributed as "Sent".
No need to create a new folder "Sent Items" if there's a special folder marked as \Sent. Same goes for clients that insist on calling it "sent" or "Gesendete Objekte" or ...
The RFC reserves a list of special use folders:
\All This mailbox presents all messages in the user's message store. Implementations MAY omit some messages, such as, perhaps, those in \Trash and \Junk. When this special use is supported, it is almost certain to represent a virtual mailbox.
\Archive This mailbox is used to archive messages. The meaning of an "archival" mailbox is server-dependent; typically, it will be used to get messages out of the inbox, or otherwise keep them out of the user's way, while still making them accessible.
\Drafts This mailbox is used to hold draft messages -- typically, messages that are being composed but have not yet been sent. In some server implementations, this might be a virtual mailbox, containing messages from other mailboxes that are marked with the "\Draft" message flag. Alternatively, this might just be advice that a client put drafts here.
\Flagged This mailbox presents all messages marked in some way as "important". When this special use is supported, it is likely to represent a virtual mailbox collecting messages (from other mailboxes) that are marked with the "\Flagged" message flag.
\Junk This mailbox is where messages deemed to be junk mail are held. Some server implementations might put messages here automatically. Alternatively, this might just be advice to a client-side spam filter.
\Sent This mailbox is used to hold copies of messages that have been sent. Some server implementations might put messages here automatically. Alternatively, this might just be advice that a client save sent messages here.
\Trash This mailbox is used to hold messages that have been deleted or marked for deletion. In some server implementations, this might be a virtual mailbox, containing messages from other mailboxes
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Axel von der Ohe, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein
Am 03.01.2014 22:13, schrieb Patrick Ben Koetter:
- Charles Marcus dovecot@dovecot.org:
Sorry for replying to such an old email, but...
Thank you. You just made me feel very old... ;)
I'm wondering how 'Templates' got left out?
It is a Special folder in Thunderbird that you can't delete - and it is very useful (at least in Thunderbird) as well...
I tried adding it in my dovecot (2.2.10) config, but it complained about an unsupported option...
I searched a few minutes, but couldn't find the link to quote here: Special-Use Mailbox names need to be registered. IIRC Templates didn't make it into the first RFC. I am not aware of a discussion that abandoned it either. Probably, if you gave it a try, you can have it added and Timo will add it afterwards...
p@rick
looks like there is a draft for "important"
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iceman-imap-specialuse-important-02
guess "Templates" was to "Thunderbird" related
On 2011-03-11 5:31 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter p@state-of-mind.de wrote:
A server may, for example, mark a folder as \Sent.
Any client that connects to such a server can search for a folder that has been attributed as "Sent".
No need to create a new folder "Sent Items" if there's a special folder marked as \Sent. Same goes for clients that insist on calling it "sent" or "Gesendete Objekte" or ...
The RFC reserves a list of special use folders:
\All This mailbox presents all messages in the user's message store. Implementations MAY omit some messages, such as, perhaps, those in \Trash and \Junk. When this special use is supported, it is almost certain to represent a virtual mailbox.
\Archive This mailbox is used to archive messages. The meaning of an "archival" mailbox is server-dependent; typically, it will be used to get messages out of the inbox, or otherwise keep them out of the user's way, while still making them accessible.
\Drafts This mailbox is used to hold draft messages -- typically, messages that are being composed but have not yet been sent. In some server implementations, this might be a virtual mailbox, containing messages from other mailboxes that are marked with the "\Draft" message flag. Alternatively, this might just be advice that a client put drafts here.
\Flagged This mailbox presents all messages marked in some way as "important". When this special use is supported, it is likely to represent a virtual mailbox collecting messages (from other mailboxes) that are marked with the "\Flagged" message flag.
\Junk This mailbox is where messages deemed to be junk mail are held. Some server implementations might put messages here automatically. Alternatively, this might just be advice to a client-side spam filter.
\Sent This mailbox is used to hold copies of messages that have been sent. Some server implementations might put messages here automatically. Alternatively, this might just be advice that a client save sent messages here.
\Trash This mailbox is used to hold messages that have been deleted or marked for deletion. In some server implementations, this might be a virtual mailbox, containing messages from other mailboxes
Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer
-- [*] sys4 AG
http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München
Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Axel von der Ohe, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 10:57:39PM +0100, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
Timo,
would you consider adding support for "IMAP LIST Extension for Special-Use Mailboxes" http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6154.txt any time near in the future?
I would really love to get rid of all those folders created by all those different mail clients just because they can't agree to use the same folder for special purpose.
I would strongly endorse this request.
Obviously clients need to support it too. Having Dovecot support it certainly would make them adopt the standard sooner.
On 3/11/11 5:54 PM, Dennis Guhl wrote:
would you consider adding support for "IMAP LIST Extension for Special-Use Mailboxes"http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6154.txt any time near in the future?
I would really love to get rid of all those folders created by all those different mail clients just because they can't agree to use the same folder for special purpose.
I would strongly endorse this request.
Right there with you on that.
-Dave-- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL
On 11.3.2011, at 23.57, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
would you consider adding support for "IMAP LIST Extension for Special-Use Mailboxes" http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6154.txt any time near in the future?
This has been requested before. I'm still just wondering what would be a good way to configure this. The possibilities are basically:
a) imap_specialuse = \Drafts Drafts \Sent "Sent Messages" ..etc..
b) imap_specialuse_drafts = Drafts imap_specialuse_sent = Sent Messages ..etc..
c) imap_specialuse = /etc/dovecot/specialuse.conf.ext and the file contains:
\Sent Sent Messages \Drafts Drafts ..etc..
I don't really like any of them. Maybe there's a d) that I haven't thought of yet.
The spec also supports the possibility of allowing clients to move the tags around, and of course it would be nice if Dovecot supported that too. Only c) makes it even theoretically possible by having imap_specialuse = ~/.dovecot.specialuse
- Timo Sirainen dovecot@dovecot.org:
On 11.3.2011, at 23.57, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
would you consider adding support for "IMAP LIST Extension for Special-Use Mailboxes" http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6154.txt any time near in the future?
This has been requested before. I'm still just wondering what would be a good way to configure this. The possibilities are basically:
You and I had mailed about this about a year ago. Then I went out to ask IETF make it a standard. Now that it has become a standard I am back. :)
a) imap_specialuse = \Drafts Drafts \Sent "Sent Messages" ..etc..
b) imap_specialuse_drafts = Drafts imap_specialuse_sent = Sent Messages ..etc..
c) imap_specialuse = /etc/dovecot/specialuse.conf.ext and the file contains:
\Sent Sent Messages \Drafts Drafts ..etc..
I don't really like any of them. Maybe there's a d) that I haven't thought of yet.
The spec also supports the possibility of allowing clients to move the tags around, and of course it would be nice if Dovecot supported that too. Only c) makes it even theoretically possible by having imap_specialuse = ~/.dovecot.specialuse
Yes, looks as if c) could cover all parts of the RFC.
p@rick
-- state of mind Digitale Kommunikation
Franziskanerstraße 15 Telefon +49 89 3090 4664 81669 München Telefax +49 89 3090 4666
Amtsgericht München Partnerschaftsregister PR 563
On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 01:39:20 +0200, Timo Sirainen tss@iki.fi wrote:
I don't really like any of them. Maybe there's a d) that I haven't thought of yet.
alias client folder name to default on server
eg: sendt > sent udkast > drafts
this way no need for client to adobt anything
Hi all,
I'm just wondering if anyone knows if this got implemented? I've been looking at doing this for quite some time...
-- Steven Haigh
Email: netwiz@crc.id.au Web: http://www.crc.id.au Phone: (03) 9001 6090 - 0412 935 897 Fax: (03) 8338 0299
Timo,
would you consider adding support for "IMAP LIST Extension for Special-Use Mailboxes" http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6154.txt any time near in the future?
I would really love to get rid of all those folders created by all >those different mail clients just because they can't agree to use the same folder for special purpose.
Obviously clients need to support it too. Having Dovecot support it certainly would make them adopt the standard sooner.
Am 03.03.2012 um 13:07 schrieb Steven Haigh:
I'm just wondering if anyone knows if this got implemented? I've been looking at doing this for quite some time...
Yes it was. It has been discussed extensively:
http://www.dovecot.org/list/dovecot-news/2012-February/000213.html http://www.dovecot.org/list/dovecot/2011-December/062327.html
Thomas
On 2012-03-03 1:10 PM, Thomas Leuxner tlx@leuxner.net wrote:
Am 03.03.2012 um 13:07 schrieb Steven Haigh:
I'm just wondering if anyone knows if this got implemented? I've beenlooking at doing this for quite some time...
Yes it was. It has been discussed extensively:
http://www.dovecot.org/list/dovecot-news/2012-February/000213.html http://www.dovecot.org/list/dovecot/2011-December/062327.html
Thanks for the thread references Thomas, I just re-read them and didn't see my question asked...
The obvious downside to the current RFC based umplementation is that it requires Client cooperation...
My question (I guess for Timo) is, would it be crazy/possible to implement some kind of 'alias' conversion in dovecot that would work regardless of client cooperation?
Ie, in a config file, add a list of 'aliases' for these special use folders (similar to how it is done now), but where dovecot would then silently translate/map a request for any of the defined aliases to the defined special use folder? so, if Outlook wants to save a sent message to 'Sent Items', it would simply and silently be saved to 'Sent' (or whatever the admin had defined as the 'real' sent folder). This wouldn't then require anything to be implemented in a client, it would only require the Admin to know what clients they want to support and what folders those clients look for by default.
--
Best regards,
Charles
On 26.6.2012, at 18.54, Charles Marcus wrote:
My question (I guess for Timo) is, would it be crazy/possible to implement some kind of 'alias' conversion in dovecot that would work regardless of client cooperation?
Ie, in a config file, add a list of 'aliases' for these special use folders (similar to how it is done now), but where dovecot would then silently translate/map a request for any of the defined aliases to the defined special use folder? so, if Outlook wants to save a sent message to 'Sent Items', it would simply and silently be saved to 'Sent' (or whatever the admin had defined as the 'real' sent folder). This wouldn't then require anything to be implemented in a client, it would only require the Admin to know what clients they want to support and what folders those clients look for by default.
There would be two possibilities:
Have aliases where the alias is visible with LIST and all other commands. Most clients will then show that mailbox duplicated with two names, probably causing user confusion.
Have aliases where the alias isn't visible with LIST, but it would be possible to APPEND/COPY messages there, or CREATE, SELECT, etc. I have no idea how different clients would behave with this behavior. Might work with some, or might not..
You can kind of emulate 2) behavior and see what happens by setting up namespaces like:
namespace { prefix = separator = / inbox = yes list = no hidden = no } namespace { prefix = RealMails/ separator = / list = no hidden = yes } # I think there needs to be one list=yes namespace: namespace { prefix = something/ separator = / list = yes hidden = yes location = mbox:/var/lib/dovecot/empty }
Anyway you could see if clients show the Drafts/Sent etc. mailboxes that they create and allows actually accessing them.
participants (10)
-
Benny Pedersen
-
Charles Marcus
-
Dave McGuire
-
Dennis Guhl
-
Patrick Ben Koetter
-
Patrick Ben Koetter
-
Robert Schetterer
-
Steven Haigh
-
Thomas Leuxner
-
Timo Sirainen